Blizz Confirmed changes coming for DK in War Within

Classes Death Knight
121

Make Frostwyrm’s Fury baseline again, make it a two-minute cooldown and cost 50 runes, and give us talents that allow us to build our spec around a playstyle better than the game of whack-a-mole BoS forces us to play. The dev notes in this article give the same exact pitch that we got in Legion when 2H was removed, which is that devs want Frost to be “unique” in its playstyle. Therefore we have to suffer an onslaught of either shoehorned or dead-on-arrival talents, alongside suboptimal balancing which is what we got this expansion.

But this continued leaning on BoS is ridiculous. It’s a terrible ability gameplay wise and too much development time has been spent trying to make it anything other than that. They can rework every other class and just outright pack-a-punch Ret, but Frost only loses the fun abilities on the once per decade occasion that its core mechanics even get touched.

4 Likes
122

You dont have to use it.

Like what? What have they done in this expansion or last that has taken development time away from the rest of the spec that 2h and Obliteration hasnt?

Frostscythe? It not being used isnt the fault of BoS. Frost Strike not having any oomph isnt the fault of BoS. Howling Blast doing poor or mediocre damage isnt the fault of BoS…

BoS has just become a scapegoat and its getting downright pathetic that its still being blamed for things it has 0 impact on.

And dont try to pull this “because you like BoS doesnt mean its good” crap that I know is going to come… I dont like BoS, so I dont play it.

https ://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/mrh8zGvgTBxKZnpL#fight=66&type=damage-done&source=522

This is why things are so weak, the funneling everything into Obliterate. BoS has 0 impact on why this is the way it is, that is entirely 2h, MotFW and this whole idea that Obliterate was the entire spec. Well thats what they did in the past 2 expansions and barely touching BoS.

123

Wow a whole post funneling everything into obilterate’s fault? Never saw that coming! not from you.

Remember before shadowlands just about every piece of tuning went into making sure the breath babies still had a bottle. Now the tuning focus has shifted the last few expansions it feels damn nice.

quite right too! In the damn bin with that ability :smiley:

3 Likes
124

Then how about you guys backup your claim. Explain exactly how BoS has caused the downfall of Frost and how BoS has caused the outcome of the log that I posted.

Oh, and if if the tuning has shifted makes the spec feel nice… why is the representation in the gutter exactly? It took a nosedive in SL and DF.

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Because for a majority of the problems people post on these forums about, it is.

Tuning changes before SL? Oh, you mean the repeated nerfs because it was too strong? Seems like the opposite of “babies had a bottle to me” but you do you.

Funny how it’s “Babies have a bottle” when it’s any changes that benefit Breath but not when it’s the inverse.

126

They can never back up their claim. Its prejudice for the ability through and through.

Im not saying remove Obliterate, but it IS causing issues within the spec that can be traced back to Obliterate without fail. Frostscythes sudden dismissal that happened in SL to where you needed Frostscythe to hit more targets than Frostscythes new target cap to be worth anything and the only ability that Frostscythe competes with is Obliterate. Frost Strike not doing any damage in Obliteration builds isnt the fault of BoS keeping down its tuning because BoS couldnt care less about Frost Strike because it doesnt want to use it AT ALL with its 90+% uptime so it has to do with what is going on in Obliteration builds.

Then when you look at 2h and MotFW, its ENTIRE shtick revolves around Obliterate… you cant do anything else with it. So when you have an Obliteration build +2h well where does the damage budget go? Obliterate.

1 Like
127

you read these forums as much as me, its been done a million times.

Death and decay

no

Pretty much all changes were to benefit breath pre SL. Talenting into oblit was a huge dps downgrade in BFA. Oblit never had a “bottle” but it does now.

5 Likes
128

No, you guys quite literally havent.

Really? DK is down in representation because of DnD? Talk about making stuff up.

Yes, it quite literally is.

I also find it absolutely hilarious that you guys STILL cant answer the question. Its never been answered, BoS has just been blamed and that was that. So how exactly does BoS impact Frost Strike damage in Obliteration builds when Frost Strike isnt even a damage source in BoS builds. Frost Strike is competing with all other sources of damage to make up 50% of Obliterations overall damage. So if you have say 7 other damage sources each of those damage sources on average will be around 7%. And surprise surprise that is what we see roughly.

You guys really need to stop lying to yourselves and face the music. Obliteration as a build is 100% terrible and leading to all of your issues.

129

The “Its Obliteration’s fault” vs the “Its Breath’s fault” back and forth is almost amusing. They are balanced against each other and are both way too strong. These two talents are equally to blame for current frost.

They are not solely responsible as there are other factors, but they do contribute and they do so equally.

130

You want a list? There isnt much i can say that hasn’t been said before sadly. i’d maybe just put that near the top but there are many vaild reasons not to mention its just end of season.

no

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No, I asked a question to get no answer… some people I swear.

132

Irony isn’t your thing really.

133

You guys have been complaining about representation since SL. Blaming it on DnD is hilarious.

134

Would love love love if Plaguebringer and Clawing Shadows weren’t a choice node for UH.

2 Likes
135

Honestly at this point I’m so beyond sick of the constant back and forth, delete dw/2h, delete bos/obliteration. Just make the spec good, personally I hate bos but the entire spec playing into/around pillar got old real fast and the entire thing feels like it’s held together with tape. Just, delete whatever needs to be deleted and be done with it. That way I’ll know for sure if I should finally bin my dk for good.

I’ve mained this class and specifically frost since wotlk and I can’t stand to play it anymore. Legion ruined the class and sometimes I feel like the every other transmog sets we get that are S+ tier are just copium to keep playing this dumpster fire class that the devs have no clue what to do with since changing all the runes into death runes. So please, just rip the spec apart and cut out the fat, either make it feel nice to play or double down on it feeling like hot garbage forever; I want to be released from the endless cycle of “okay but maybe next patch they’ll reveal a huge rework that makes it insanely fun to play so I should keep up the grind so I don’t miss out”

I have a ret pally and dev evoker I’m ready to jump ship to, I just need Blizz to finally put the last nail in the coffin

2 Likes
136

They did that two weeks ago when they announced they were not removing BoS or reworking Frost. Just don’t even give the spec any playtime. I tried it again today and it felt horrible, so I am permanently staying Windwalker now.

If the devs want to stay on the path of least resistance and spend the rest of eternity twisting BoS’s tuning knob instead of actually revamping the spec, then just stop using DK and let it rot. Maybe the class’s death by nonexistence will encourage the changes we’re asking for, but they’ll probably just disregard it and buff ret again.

8 Likes
137

You have a point. Such a shame, one of the most iconic classes in the warcraft franchise dragged through the mud just like the lich king himself. Fitting, in a way. Guess it’s time to move on

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138

So much melodrama about quitting, lol. Extra, but understandable. A lot of these other specs are good because they kept the rotation simple and visually cool, but got rid of a lot of the dead weight talents. We can get that too.

I’m a casual breath enjoyer semi-forced into Obliteration because legendary, but tbh it’s not really satisfying gameplay at all either which way.

Breath does good damage but no burst, and it drops very frequently in all forms of content (even raid if you’re not careful). That’s so frustrating, because most times when it drops, it was out of the death knights hands. Their solution to it is really good by fitting it into that flat 30 second window it wont feel as anxious trying to upkeep 90+%. However I am concerned it’ll be a constant knob to finely twist as stats increase through an expansions cycle. With changes it’s my big hope that BoS builds will have more burst/execute options available to keep up with all the other melee.

Obliterate does fantastic burst, but rips threat on mobs easily even after waiting, and is so incredibly punishing if you push anything else in your toolkit basically. Its not very engaging having a majority of your overall damage from spamming one button.

Frostscythe is cool in concept but the damage hasn’t been competitive and for me theres a fundamental issue with it. Even if the damage were there, it doesn’t feel good choosing between single target generator and aoe generator when we are so flooded with resources to begin with and no impactful spell to spend them on.

Frostwyrms Fury is the best middleground for all playstyles and having that be easier to pick up would be incredible. I can never go back to the little baby whelps from Pillar after experiencing s2/s4 tier set bonus! That big dragon is badass, and would love to see the tier return as a talent!

Regardless of what combat style and content one chooses to play in, the class tree is what I would love to see tweaked the most. There’s not many competitive choices that would make me think twice. It’s a one size fits all but isn’t impactful for any spec really. Some things I’d like to see added for every DK would be: Gorefiends Grasp, and Purgatory (yes the cheat death). Wraith Walk being in a spot that doesnt sacrifice the output slots. Soul Reaper as a capstone is very underwhelming and you barely notice it’s there even in execute, barely worth pressing. Control Undead not taking up the slot of Unholys ghoul. A return of the Abomination that was formerly pvp, but for all content (i love that big fella <3 ) And last thing I can think of is the ground effects from Abomination Limb that keep us from seeing hazardous ground effects clearly.

Lastly, it’s been hashed over a lot so I won’t go deep into it, but weapon rune forges need help. So many cool options that give personal benefits, but to be overshadowed by the output one thats always been there.

Looking forward to hearing more about what they have in store for us!

3 Likes
139
  • Reduce the amount of resource flooding that affects each spec to varying degrees

Pretty much a rework to the rune system and/or the way abilities function. For FDK, I can see a few scenarios happening based on this statement:

  • Runic Power generation from Rune spending is changed but this would mean BoS would be heavily affected
  • Obliterate/KM is changed
  • Abilities like Frost Strike become bigger RP spenders but this will affect Obliteration weaving

Everything is built ontop of DK’s resource generation. My personal wish for Obliteration is that KM becomes rarer but much more impactful, removing FS/Oblit weaving in PoF, less focus on PoF and more focus on sustain DPS and obviously less dependency on DnD.

140

Don’t have to rework the system, just address talents. In no scenario should you spend runes and gain a net positive of runes.

Our system was to spend one resource to generate another, then use that new resource to possibly gain the initial resource back since the initial resource recharges itself over time.