The way it is, you are simply forcing mm hunters to use Spotter’s Mark. I would like to have the freedom to use my pet of choice within instances as well, causing relevant damage and making Spotter’s Mark an option and not a requirement.
Thank you.
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That’s intended. Using a pet isn’t supposed to be comparable. The pet is for open world/delves or people who RP.
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Where is this? Is it written in some skill? In the spec description? Or is it just the express will of some players who don’t know how to use their pets in dungeons? Other classes use pets in competitive dungeons, but if some famous dev or streamer feels like the owner of the class and controls his pet poorly and finds it unnecessary, here he comes and says “let’s take this away from all hunters, forcing them to do it”.
There is currently no option to choose between Spotter’s mark and Unbreakable bond, it is simply something forced.
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It is by “popular” (to be read as spammy) request.
It is written all over these forums. Primarily by non-hunters.
Essentially yes.
Other way around. It is the express will by people who don’t want to play Marksmanship hunters to try to turn MM hunters into lite-versions of BM hunters. But it does also say on the talent “While outdoors” so that’s a pretty good tell this isn’t meant to be something people actually use.
If you want to play with pets as a hunter, you got two specializations for that. If you want to focus on being a marksman, then you got one specialization for that. No, you don’t get to turn MM even more into either Survival or BM just because folks on these forums got upset that MM is both by design and desire a petless specialization.
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It was originally gonna be petless but the RP players who couldn’t just go BM complained so blizz put it in. Its not meant to be anything more. Its a dead talent if you want to actually do good dmg.
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I think all non-warlocks should ask Blizzard that only demonology can summon pets in dungeons.
so the “RP” thing should work for more ppl.
I’m not an RP player and I just like to play mms with pets in dungeons. Blizzard relating mms that use pets to roleplayers is an excuse to treat us as a minority and ignore freedom of choice in one way or another.
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You are aware that this talent exists, right? As well as it being the standard talent for most Affliction Warlocks historically, right? Whereas destruction’s overall playstyle just haven’t been able to leverage it that well, so pets are largely just used as “which one gives me the most powerful Demon-spell” and then people don’t care about the rest.
You are aware of all of that, right?
Demonology is the only warlock specialization that cares about its demons. Affliction and Destruction is very much so “pick which one is the best/if-you-like-looking-at-your-Succubus-or-Incubus-without-it-affecting-your-ability-to-do-your-rotation.”
In other words., it already works that way effectively.
This is called “play BM if you want to use pets” because MM is designed to not be played with pets. Mostly because MM-players during Warlords demonstrated that people overwhelmingly would choose a DPS and utility loss just to use Lone Wolf, and that this pattern stayed the same throughout every expansion afterwards.
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That was the intent, yes. The MM rework was meant to turn the spec into a pure ranger/archer archetype and give it more damage and utility for group play. But… people complained about losing their pet so Blizz put Unbreakable Bond in and basically gave up on finishing the rework.
So I think petless MM ended up marginally better than it was? Hunter experts can weigh in there, but I feel like its not really what Blizz was intending the finished rework to be because they had to compromise on the pet.
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You can play Beastmaster or Survival if you want to use pets. No one is forcing you to play marksman. Why is playing Marksman more important to you than playing with a pet?
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The literal blue posts and ptr notes. They were removing the pet completely.
Using a pet isn’t hard. MM hasn’t been intended to use pets since legion.
Those classes don’t take the dps loss that MM does.
More like the the damage loss for using a pet was so much in aoe situations you were doing non competitive damage.
That’s because originally they were removing the pet. Now instead of removing the pet you have an option to use it as a dps loss.
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Not an expert by any measure, but this is undeniably the case. Because “I want the freedom to pick” simply means “You can’t get rid of stuff that gets in the way of a specifically designed experience.”
Another way to put it is talking about hunter durability and stuff like that. Hunter as a ranged specialization needs to be more squishy than other dps ones that are in melee for an example. Warlocks get around this by using health as a resource but hunters have always had the issue of the pet being a summonable tank whilst being very maneuverable.
Which means that you can’t really add additional durability to hunter overall because on paper you can always summon a tank to take damage for you. Since MM is played without a pet, both by design and by people’s desire for it to be like that, it doesn’t have a tank … but it still has to be treated as if it had this element tied to it.
There are ways around it but this is a case where someone’s option to play in an unintended but still supported fashion negatively impacts how an entire specialization has to be treated. So by “allowing” players to play in this fashion, it limits what you can do in terms of design space… and this is part of how game design works. The more options that exist that need to be, on some level, supported, the fewer options you have to design a holistic gameplay experience.
No need to be a hunter expert for this, as this is just part of how game design works at a relatively basic level. There’s more examples of this outside of game design as well, since Netflix has the whole choice paralysis and that’s another element to it. Less so important in this case but it demonstrates that this is a concept that is widely known and exists in multiple different ways all over the world.
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Great news you still can.
You weren’t doing competitive damage before the rework and you’re not doing competitive damage with a pet after the rework
So nothing for you has changed.
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It wasn’t even intended for MM to have a pet at all come this rework. Unbreakable Bond is meant to be worse but for those who wanted a pet still. The patch notes even state, specifically, that it will be a flat out worse option.
Now, the fact it’s worse won’t matter except in the highest levels of highest levels of content, so if you want to play a pet by all means. If you want to be cutting edge with a pet, well, you have two other specs to choose from.
For MM no pet has for a long time been the optimal way to go about things. Now it’s just kinda more official but you can still pull a pet out if you want.
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It’s exactly the reasons those of us who fought long and hard to keep MM pets gave as the reason for doing so. This is the compromise we got, and most of us where happy to get, instead of Blizzard’s original plan;
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No, most aren’t happy. Most just haven’t thought about the endless number of design space doors that were permanently closed because… meh’, some folks want to be lazy and use a random bear to run around with during a delve or because … apparently some folks have issues with elites.
So no, most aren’t happy. Just a case of most haven’t thought about what it could’ve meant if MM hunters could’ve had a different system that worked better for them. It is just a combination of ignorance and the popularity of being outraged online.
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This is basically once again bad players affecting the end game again
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Yeah, there’s an element to that but… it is honestly worse. Because the cool thing about when close doors that are held open unnecessarily, you open up for more interesting design space and elements elsewhere.
Like Warlocks got the whole demonic menagerie where we get to customize our demons to a greater extent than what merely glyphs were able to do. Imagine if MM hunters could get something like that for their “spotting” mechanic. Since if the animal companion thing got removed, you could have different versions of what “spotting” could mean.
You do it yourself and you just change something as simple as “Eagle Vision” to be “Scouting Vision” and you pull out a scope and have an animation where players actually look through a scope to do that. Rather than the whole casting animation malarkey.
Other elements could be that if you now have a specific spotting animal, maybe it is tied to an animal group so you could still go out and farm let’s say birds and you get to pick between those. Or maybe you get an engineering thing and you get to literally build and customize a “spotting animal” that is used for your spell effects. We have seen what we could do with the hunting baakar during Dragonflight, which was a very basic version of what one could expand upon; maybe using a pre-set birb from one of the avian pet families, or you could use one that’s customizable.
It isn’t just a case of “bad players limiting end game” but rather this whole outrage against something which would open up doors and allow for the potential for something like this later on. Maybe it would happen, or maybe it wouldn’t. At worse the specialization gets more support for how it is meant to be played and at best … more customization options down the road that makes sense for the actual specialization!
So it isn’t just bad players affecting end game but this whole nonsense-outrage that limited even those who were upset about “but we are losing our pets” when the reality is that folks should’ve thought “but we get rid of something unnecessary and limiting … so let’s have fun and advocate for a system that could replace it!”
… it is just… outrage-farming making things worse because people want social media brownie points.
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the point is that running the pet is supposed to be vastly inferior. the only reason it is there is to stave off the crying.
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This whole saga of MM’s pet being removed and given back has shown that Hunters are the biggest whiners on this board. You could give them the sun and the moon and they’ll still complain about it.
Almost kinda happy their class has been in the dumpster for awhile.
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We already have the moon if Sentinel is anything to go by.
I mean, may as well give us the sun too, why not.
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