BFA's Primary Problem Is Its Faction Leaders: A What-If Solution

I had some free time so I decided to come up with this. Just a heads up before you read, it’s pretty long!

With the story of BFA having been finished for some time now, I’ve been thinking over the quality of the expansion and all that’s happened. In my personal view, BFA has not been a bad expansion although it’s definitely been mediocre. It is a step above WOD for me, which is the worst expansion in my personal rankings. I do not like having another faction war when there are still major threats to Azeroth in existence, and so soon after MOP. But with there being a faction war their leaders must be included, those being Anduin and Sylvanas, neither of which are likable characters to the majority of Warcraft fans in their current state.

Anduin is the “golden child”, a young diligent worshiper of the Light whose characterization is to strive for the good of all, no matter his enemies goals. Sylvanas is the Banshee Queen, an experienced former ranger with survival as her focus, whether that is for her people or herself. One dictates what he believes to be good for everyone (which can be argued has resulted in the “Stormwindification” of the Alliance since Anduin has put his beliefs of what is good onto those around him) while the other is “selfish” in her motivations (Sylvanas has committed atrocities in the name of her goal of survival, to both allies and enemies alike). In the lens of a “light and dark” motif, this theoretically can create a “yin and yang” parallel and can more easily convince players who is thematically the antagonist, though I believe for the story of BFA to have succeeded, putting the expansion’s themes into the lens of “mirroring” would have been better; seeing the differences of the factions can make it more easy for the audience to side with one in particular, though with both having more similarities than differences it makes it so that the audience has to look more closely at each side thus resulting in a more complex story. This can be difficult to do due to how opposite Anduin and Sylvanas are.

My solution to have made the narrative of BFA better: replace Anduin and Sylvanas with other characters to be the leaders of the Alliance and Horde. This may sound like it’d change the story drastically, but in actuality there would only need to be small changes. The story structure would be able to stay the same, from the burning of Teldrassil to Saurfang’s death at Orgrimmar. Though admittedly, it is not a perfect solution. If you’re a huge fan of particular races in WoW, you might not like some of the changes and may feel that some victories the Alliance or Horde are given to be unfair.

After the Broken Shore during Legion, Anduin and Sylvanas were made the leaders. We can have the change in leadership still occur during this time, but who would leadership be given to? For the Alliance, Tyrande would become leader. For the Horde, Lor’themar would become leader. The potential flaw in this is that both factions are lead by Elves.

As before, Anduin would be given leadership after Varian has died, but then the difference happens. Anduin, like much of the player base believes, would think himself too young and inexperienced to take on such a burden so soon, and in such a time of crisis would give leadership to someone else. Being the oldest and arguably most experienced military commander in the Alliance, Tyrande would be given leadership so that she can lead the Alliance against the Burning Legion; it’s a threat she is very familiar with, and she’s also familiar with the landscape of the Broken Isles as it was her previous home. For the Humans, this would create an interesting story dynamic where the kingdom of Stormwind would further question Anduin’s leadership skills, as many of its citizens would question why their King gave away such power, thus giving conflict that Stormwind currently lacks. For Horde players, this could make Tyrande’s involvement in Val’sharrah further problematic due to having to quest for her in that zone.

During Vol’jin’s death, instead of being commanded by Mueh’zala to give leadership to Sylvanas, there wouldn’t be “loa whispers” at all; instead he’d follow his instinct of who he would believe to be the best successor to Warchief, which in this case would be Lor’themar. Lor’themar is an experienced tactician who is liked by the other leaders of the Horde, and is regarded by much of the Horde’s playerbase to be the best characterized leader currently a part of the faction. As seen in Before The Storm (which is a novel I greatly dislike), Sylvanas did not want to be Warchief. I am under the belief that this is not a retcon, but simply a difference of how those on the Jailer’s team wanted to enact their plan. I think Sylvanas believed that she could still enact her plan from behind the scenes, while Mueh’zala or the Jailer thought it better she takes a more direct approach.

With Tyrande and Lor’themar as the leaders, this gives to the theme of mirroring that’d be able to be seen in this version of BFA. Both leaders are Elves, which is a concept both factions would have in common. The Night Elves are on the farthest side of the planet on Teldrassil while the Blood Elves are on the direct opposite side in Quel’thalas, geographically reflecting each other. With these changes, the expansion of Legion would continue without any changes. Though without Sylvanas as leader of the Horde, the motivation for the war must be changed slightly.

No matter how experienced or skilled someone is, leadership can be stressful for anyone, especially in times of conflict or war. When Azerite appeared in Silithus, the Goblins went to mine it before they were attacked by SI:7, which Sylvanas used partly to convince Saurfang to plan the invasion of Ashenvale. With this and the attack on Sylvanas by Genn during Legion in mind, Lor’themar would feel that the Alliance is likely preparing to go to war with the Horde, giving this reasoning to Saurfang in order to do a preemptive attack. The plan would be the same, though Lor’themar would genuinely want to capture Teldrassil. His stress and the mistakes he makes during this version of BFA would create, hopefully sympathetically to the playerbase, a somewhat flawed leader that unintentionally spurred on the war at various points because of his doubts of success.

It’s during the invasion of Ashenvale that Lor’themar would have his first doubts, as despite routing much of the Night Elven military to Feralas, he would underestimate the strength of the Night Elves in their lands. When reaching the beach of Darkshore outside of Teldrassil, Lor’themar would believe that they wouldn’t be able to successfully take the tree due to how much resistance they’ve already faced, and the Horde wouldn’t be able to turn back now since they’ve already invaded Alliance lands. Panicked by the situation, this is when he’d order the tree to be burned. Saurfang would react as he did before. Then the attack on Lordaeron happens.

Since Lor’themar is the leader of the Horde, the Alliance would consider attacking Silvermoon, though in this version of BFA they wouldn’t be able to. With the Nightborne now a part of the Horde, they and the Blood Elves would teach each other new and improved magic techniques through collaboration, which would allow them to create new runestones on the borders of Quel’thalas to create an impenetrable magic barrier similar to Suramar; this situation allows for the Horde to have the magical equivalency that they currently lack in comparison to the Alliance today. With the Undercity being the next closest city, the Alliance would attack that instead. Since Tyrande would have to tend to her people directly after Ashenvale’s invasion, Anduin would be allowed to lead the attack on Lordaeron. This makes underestimations to problems such as the blight more understandable since the Alliance leadership duties would be unexpectedly split with the recent trouble, with higher ups rushing to plan a counter attack.

As before, the Undercity would become destroyed by the bombs that are placed there by the Horde. But in this version, the Alliance would find the throne room empty while Nathanos watches from the shadows, locking them in the room before the bombs explode. For the rest of the expansion, Sylvanas would be missing and characters would comment on how her body was never found, thus creating a mystery in the question of what happened to Sylvanas and where she is. As currently, Nathanos would work during BFA to enact Sylvanas’ plan, though his true motives would be unknown from the start with both players and leaders becoming more suspicious of his activities throughout the expansion. I also feel this would be more gratifying to Alliance players as they would probably feel this to be more of an Alliance victory than what’s actually happened.

This is when we get to Kul Tiras and Zandalar. While Tyrande and Lor’themar are the leaders of the Alliance and Horde, they would have commanders under them to do important duties that they themselves wouldn’t be able to do due to how busy they are in making their plans to win the war. With his people questioning his leadership ability, Anduin would insist that he help lead in the war effort to earn the approval of his people and do his part to protect them, which Tyrande would grant. After Talanji and Zul are broken out of the Stockades, this allows him to send Jaina to Kul Tiras, with the added purpose of Anduin’s reputation being on the line. Their breakout would be a cause to further question Anduin’s leadership ability.

On the Horde side, Nathanos would command for the Horde. His stated reasoning would be to get revenge for Sylvanas and the Undercity, although in actuality he would be working behind Lor’themar’s and much of the other Horde leaders backs in order to enact Sylvanas’ hidden agenda. These situations create two more mirroring themes. The first is that the Alliance doubts Anduin’s leadership ability while the Horde gradually doubts Lor’themar’s. The second is that both factions are trying to get back someone, that being the Alliance trying to recapture Talanji while the Horde tries to find Sylvanas.

From here, much remains the same except for parts of the war campaign, mainly that of the Horde. With Nathanos leading the quests, Horde players would start to doubt his methods and motives. The biggest change is the end result, where instead of Derek being raised into a Forsaken, Tandred is captured instead after Boralus itself has been infiltrated. Tandred would be interrogated and tortured before being killed, then raised by Nathanos afterward, all to the objections of those around him who are not undead, objecting more with each step. This change is important for several reasons.

This prevents the retcon of Derek having been burned to ashes. Tandred is already a brother of Jaina’s that can be used, and this gives the Alliance a much needed loss through the death of a faction chracter, which the Alliance hasn’t had in actual BFA. The battle of Dazar’Alor has a better motivation, and it gives Jaina more conflict for the expansion, making her question how she feels after she’s thought she’s come to terms with her arc since MoP; anger would return for Tandred’s capture, revenge would be gained from Dazar’Alor, and then she’d realize she was on the verge of reverting, showing her when it’s appropriate to go against the Horde. The death of Jaina’s family member and the death of Talanji’s family member creates another mirroring between the factions. Tandred is also given actual purpose as a character.

Tandred being raised would not be public knowledge, and since Baine and Zelling would object to this they would try to leave and tell Lor’themar. Zelling would be killed to prevent the Horde from knowing and Baine would be captured. Since Nathanos is the commander for the Horde, he would have access to the Underhold, where he’d secretly take Baine. Minor NPCs that aren’t Undead would be a part of Nathanos’ war plans, and this would create a plot where both the players and characters that are against his plans silently question who is with him and who is not, and also explains how characters such as the Sunreavers are in the Underhold when Baine is saved. Also importantly, the player choice of being a Sylvanas loyalist or not remains, allowing you to either work with Nathanos or against him depending on whether you agree with his methods or not.

Outside of the faction war plot, there is still the plot regarding Azshara and N’zoth. Not much of this would be changed, the main part being changed being that of who Xal’atath is given to. Some of the Reliquary would be working with Nathanos, so the Horde would give the blade to the Reliquary, which would give it to Nathanos afterwards. Nathanos would give Lor’themar false information that the Alliance is planning to cross the ocean which results in their going to where Nazjatar opens, while at the same time he sends the Alliance a secret tip of where they will be. During Nazjatar, Nathanos leaves and is gone for the rest of the expansion.

As what’s happened with actual BFA, Saurfang’s story arc would still be a notable part of the plot. It would be the same up until the attack on Orgrimmar. This is probably the greatest change to the expansion, as Sylvanas isn’t around for Saurfang to have a Mak’gora against. Anduin would be under the impression that Saurfang would go against Lor’themar due to his dissatisfaction of Teldrassil being burned, but Saurfang’s loyalty to the Horde would prevail and he would join Orgrimmar’s defense upon it coming under attack by the Alliance. While what we currently have is simply the factions preparing to do SoO 2, what would be different is that the final questline of the war campaign would be what I call the Battle of Durotar.

With Tyrande becoming the Night Warrior and leading the newly created Army of the Black Moon, they would lead the charge into Durotar to Orgrimmar. Each quest would involve attacking an important location for the Alliance and defending it for the Horde, with the Horde being pushed back to Orgrimmar’s gates. The final quest objective would be to “Attack/Defend Orgrimmar’s Gates!”, which is when what would’ve been the Mak’gora cinematic plays. Seeing the might of the Alliance, particularly that of the Night Warrior’s forces, Lor’themar would make the difficult choice of surrendering so that the Horde isn’t annihilated during the siege. To sate her rage, Tyrande would demand the execution of Lor’themar due to being the one that caused Teldrassil to burn, but to save the Horde Saurfang offers himself instead, as there would still be many in the Horde loyal to Lor’themar.

In an emotional scene, Saurfang is gently executed by Tyrande, signalling the end of the war. The Horde’s focus goes to finding Nathanos in order to bring the traitor to justice, after Gallywix is found suspiciously trying to destroy evidence of what Nathanos and those loyal to him did. If the player was loyal to Nathanos, they manage to destroy a file on the player that would have proved their allegiance before Gallywix is caught, in which during the turn in quest the player states they found Gallywix trying to destroy the evidence. The position of Warchief is abolished by the Alliance as part of the treaty that is made. This part of the treaty is made by Anduin, which gives him much favor from Stormwind.

This obviously changes the search for Sylvanas, as her status remains the same as it was during the Undercity’s destruction. At the beginning of Shadows Rising, the Horde would let the Alliance know that Nathanos is missing, which results in Alleria and Turalyon being sent to search for him since he is a war criminal. I won’t spoil it, but the book happens the same as it does now, and the person narrating in the epilogue also remains the same, making it a big surprise to those reading. The Shadowlands reveal cinematic is also surprising, as Bolvar vs Sylvanas would be much more unexpected. Tyrande’s motivation in Shadowlands would be to get revenge against the Undead instead of the Horde as a whole, since they’re the primary enemies in the Darkshore warfront.

If you’ve read this far, thank you! I know it’s not a perfect solution, but I tried to think of how the plot would’ve been better if I were to somehow improve it. This victory to the Fourth War isn’t ideal, but I feel like it’d have interesting consequences for both the Alliance and Horde afterwards, for both inner and outer conflict on both sides. If there’s something I missed or if you think there’s a way to improve this scenario, go ahead and make a post about it. If you have your own ideas you can post those too.

Bfa is over, we can’t change the past

3 Likes

The leaders are fine, the story is what’s causing the issues. Blizzard doesn’t allow the characters to drive the story, instead leading them around by the nose and placing the character that ‘fits’ the best into a given role after the fact. People also have an inherent bias towards or for certain characters that impacts how they view them.

An example of this would be Jaina compared to Khadgar.

12 Likes

A greater problem is that Warcraft relies too heavily on using single characters to represent entire factions, so what you end up with is giant racial hiveminds that can change on a whim - it becomes difficult to feel like you’re part of something if you’re just a cog in the great machine that serves an Anduin or a Sylvanas.

The long term solution is to find a way that incorporates the faction leaders as characters, while simultaneously not making them the be-all-end-all for what the faction thinks and says collectively.

18 Likes

And you’ve lost me.:rofl::rofl:

The issue here is with the leaders. Despite Stormheim, with Tyrande and Lor’themar as leaders The Gathering would have never happened. That was Anduin’s idea and I doubt Tyrande would let that happen. The Gathering lead to Shaw flooding Orgimmar with spies with lead to Sylvanas using those spies against him and then eventually Teldrassil’s burning. This would have happened differently, even if The Gathering happened. Despite what was going on in Silithus, Lor’themar was not going to go into another war. The Blood Elves haven’t really had any down/recovery time since the civil war in BC and he’s still is sore about Sylvanas forcing him to send troops Northrend to fight Arthas. So knowing their current situation as far as supplies he would not have jumped into war.

The War of Thorns wouldn’t have happened and Teldrassil wouldn’t have burned. I assume Sylvanas would have taken some action in Silithus to force the need for a new war but Lor’themar wouldn’t have called for one. But let’s say that the War of Thorns did happen, who’s to say that Tyrande would have been in SW? Would SW still be the capital and would the leaders have to go there or to Darnassus? If she was still in Darn, both she and Malfurion together would have ended that war in Ashenvale.

This!!!

8 Likes

That honestly doesn’t sound any better to me. :frowning:

(Went into detail below)

8 Likes

You make some good points that poke some holes into my idea. For The Gathering it’d probably be Anduin organizing it without Tyrande’s knowledge, though that’d make Sylvanas less likely to agree to it. As for downtime, I don’t think anyone has had that. In regards to Tyrande being in Stormwind, I think everyone would still be evacuated there since the other Alliance cities wouldn’t have as much capacity to hold the refugees. Tyrande and Malfurion definitely would’ve been able to stop them together though.

I doubt he’d try to pull that one off. As leader he could make that unilateral decision, but in this scenario he couldn’t.

But prior to the evacuation would she have been in SW for the meeting, and would there have been a meeting at all?

They would have held out long enough for their ships to return and the Alliance to send aid. Both Saurfang and Sylvanas knew that. A battle with both on them fighting is dangerous.

1 Like

Felt that Sylvanas was the biggest problem as the horde characters didn’t sound consistent. :thinking:

edit: I’ll still wonder how she recruited Eitrigg, Garona and Rexxar as they were annoyed by our conflicts.

4 Likes

To meet with SI:7 and get their Intel she’d go to Stormwind, but for a meeting with all the leaders they’d be in Darnassus. So the idea wouldn’t really work, since all the leaders would be able to send reinforcements more easily due to the closer distance.

As SI:7 is doing Alliance intel and not intel specifically for SW or Anduin, he would more than likely have to go meet her. Seeing as in this situation he’d be working on her behalf.

Beat the horde up and make them surrender?
No thanks

3 Likes

The Horde should be grateful that Night Elves are always conveniently busy doing something else because otherwise they would lose the moment they step foot on their lands.
I would imagine it as that time Shandris got kited into Orgrimmar. Such a wipe fest.

I owe you an apology. You made a big effortpost that I just dismissed with a worthless pithy reply without even giving you the courtesy of explaining why. Sorry I crapped on your thread.

Basically, what bummed me out about BFA in general was a combo punch of finding out that the horde officially started a faction war yet again while following it up with the Teldrassil genocide along with it. What I found appealing about the horde as a faction was the idea that traditionally monstrous races didn’t necessarily have to be villains, but between the backstory of WC1 and 2, followed up by Cataclysm, I can’t really square it away in my head that the faction can really call itself good if it throws the first punch in yet another faction war.

I can understand the attempt at trying to sand down the edges of…whatever Blizzard had in mind for Sylvanas’s declaration to burn the tree, but I also don’t know if it ultimately matters what the reasoning was, or who was currently leading the horde. In the end, the story was written to have a ton of civilians killed and I can’t overlook that either. Even if the story was written in a way that burning the tree was a complete accident, it’s still an unforgivable event because it only happened as a result of the horde deciding to attack and push its way through Darkshore in the first place.

9 Likes

You don’t have to apologize, it’s fine. I like honesty, and you’re not the only one who had that opinion. I’d have prefer you not delete your post actually, because people were giving it likes and I’d be able to see how many people agreed with it. You read through my post, and I got the vibe that your response wasn’t malicious. Going by everyone else’s responses, this thread is Craptown lol.

Eh, even if it was honest, I didn’t need to be a dick about it. I’ll just edit the post.

1 Like

Eh showing Lor’Themar as an incompetent leader even though all the qualities you talked about for Tyrande can also be applied to him he has to be shown as the weak leader? Also your story ends with the total defeat of the horde and their surrender and execution of Saurfang… so all horde players culmination of the war campaign is you lose, Blue team wins. Cower in fear and hope we stop at Saurfang. This doesn’t sound like a better story to me.

BFA’s problem (in my opinion) from a story perspective is that horde started this war. It’s also a problem that we keep bleeding horde characters while the alliance is still running their OG crew. Please start developing some replacements on the horde and hopefully make them powerful as the alliance characters are WAY stronger than the horde characters atm.

5 Likes

One of the problems with a faction war plot is that many people seem to think that one of the factions can’t win, and I wanted to make a way where that doesn’t have to be the case. It felt like karma to me to have the Horde lose when they started the war, and justice would be served through the Alliance killing the architect of the Ashenvale invasion. As it is now the Horde don’t actually achieve anything in the war campaign questline and in this version they atleast manage to kill Tandred. A Horde defeat also better ensures that they don’t start another faction war. It’s definitely not a flawless solution though.

We could just kill them all and replace them.

Clean the board. Swift and simple.

Yes but if we’re doing a re write of the story why don’t we have the alliance start the war and lose for once? We have already raided Ogrimmar, Undercity, and Dazar Alor. Why dont we raid an alliance city for once? They “allowed” us to live after Siege of Og… why cant horde allow them to live this time? “One of the problems with a faction war plot is that many people seem to think that one of the factions can’t win” why does it have to be the horde that lose? Your story re write has a very heavy alliance bias (I’m not saying you did it intentionally just that i notice it)

2 Likes