The problem is, those who are happy don't come to the forums because they don't really need to. Neither do the people who aren't fully happy but don't feel like wasting the energy to complain. Nor the people who weren't happy that just unsubbed. That leaves those that are unhappy who spend their whole day crying on here that they want things easier, faster, etc. This continues expansion after expansion. What does that leave us with? Progressively crappier expansions that have gone from somewhat solid floaters to full on explosive liquid diarrhea with a bit of vomit. Which now people are finally realizing that the game the VOCAL community asked for is an RNG, daily chore, cancer forming nightmare. The problem is it's pretty much too late. /Prayers for classic.
Actually, the only difference between people who visit forums and people who don't visit forums, is that people who like to visit forums like to discuss things with random strangers on the internet.
11/11/2018 10:01 AMPosted by
Muiria
many many things vocal people complained about over the years is indeed why certain things got changed and added.
i wish they just made the game. maybe take some constructive thought out complaints. but no matter what they do people will complain. even the exact people who wanted the changes.
So please just make a fun awesome game.
People make every complaint imaginable on the forums. Just because someone complained about something you disagreed with and later a game change would seem to have been made that poster would have wanted doesn't mean they read that complaint and responded with game changes.
They don't listen and respond to complaints of people you disagree with. They hear only the voices in their heads.
The xpac is not unfinished. I assume you are referring to the classes. They may not be to your liking but they are not unfinished. The "bad" classes(Shaman/Priest) aren't even that bad. Damage is actually okay. Yeah, the playstyle on Spriest feels wrong but that's just a design issue. It is extremely hard to rebuild an entire class during the LIVE expansion.
Oh, the classes that the devs admitted were unfinished on release weren't actually unfinished? I guess you haven't been following the game, like since the beta.
That was for tuning purposes. Go back and read up, sir. I knew this would come up. Glad it did. All they said was they didn't get to them for tuning.
I mean I’m having more fun playing diablo 3 at the moment because I’ve literally capped the meaningful content on 5 characters and am either waiting on a lock out or an rng drop that I can only target every few weeks.
I have no desire to fear my characters anymore right now because it serves no purpose and there is no cool appearances I can relevantly go for. Legion TOS AND ARGUS ARE STILL virtually unpuggable right now in terms of Avatar and KJ for TOS and Argus is still well Argus. I’m also jaded from running old content for mounts. At least In legion we had artifact appearances, legendarys and artifact traits to unlock.
Edit: “VOCAL COMMUNITY” is any wow forums user, /WOW REDDIT, or any other major gaming forum.
Basically BFA is what the vocal community asked for, Legion was really onto something and had a ton of replay value.
1. They removed rng Legendarys because we the community can’t have people get bis gear if they are not doing the hardest content or the people doing the hardest content don’t want to be gated by rng legedarys that require you to do all content.
2. Artifact weapons believe it or not where not liked at all by the vocal community because we can’t have everyone have a bis weapon and being able to upgrade it past the worthy players. People also hated the fact a casual could have such a cool weapon.
3. Titanforging was removed from weapons and Azerite gear and proc rate was nerfed. Because we can’t have a casual player have a chance at getting a piece of gear better than the elite players.
4. Mythic plus difficulty increased because it was too easy for casuals to get gear equal to the top players. And the mdi as an esport.
5. LFR difficulty increased to a point it’s not even worth suffering through more than once because casuals need to work for it.
6. People wanted more pvp and we got it with warmode and surprise people migrate to winning faction so now warmode is definately off for casuals.
7. Transmog- all the cool transmog once again is only availble to elite players from mythic raid to a point we can’t even clear mythic raids from the last expansion in a full pug group.
8. I could go on and yes I know I missed some things and there is some decent rng transmogs availble to casuals in warfront and island expeditions.
So pretty much once again the endgame only has content for the elite players who pretty much don’t pay a dime to play wow as they sell carry runs for gold and then log out till content update.
This is what we wanted people and we got it.
1. The problem was not the legendaries it was that RNG was tied so heavily to then. The legendary system was really great - the implementation was bad. Blizzard',s solution: double down on the RNG factor for azerite and remove the legendaries. Bad decision.
2. Most people just didn't like the AP grind. They liked the concept of artifacts and loved the feeling of progression on them. Blizzard solution: remove the artifact weapons and the customization and add them to RNG azerite gear. Keep the AP grind but lessen them. Probably bad decision, but the system can honestly be saved with some tweaks.
3. Titanforging is a problem. I'd rather have the system of gradually nerfing content for casuals then tying RNG further to character progression. Keep warforge in mythic+ up to 380.
4. I am fine with this. Some dungeons need tweaking with the way affixes work but the dungeons are mostly well done.
5. LFR should not be in the game. Blizzard added premade groups which is a more than suitable replacement for what LFR was intended to do. LFR does nothing to keep the game social or get new players interacting and finding social groups.
6. Warmode is unfortunate but the system itself is well done and needs tweaking. It could be improved in numerous ways and the faction imbalance is a big problem. I don't put this on Blizzard at all.
7. Why is this a problem? As someone who used to be in a high end US guild and is now casual af due to having kids I believe the best players should have access to transmogs, titles, and gear we don't.
Edit: “VOCAL COMMUNITY” is any wow forums user, /WOW REDDIT, or any other major gaming forum.
Basically BFA is what the vocal community asked for, Legion was really onto something and had a ton of replay value.
1. They removed rng Legendarys because we the community can’t have people get bis gear if they are not doing the hardest content or the people doing the hardest content don’t want to be gated by rng legedarys that require you to do all content.
2. Artifact weapons believe it or not where not liked at all by the vocal community because we can’t have everyone have a bis weapon and being able to upgrade it past the worthy players. People also hated the fact a casual could have such a cool weapon.
3. Titanforging was removed from weapons and Azerite gear and proc rate was nerfed. Because we can’t have a casual player have a chance at getting a piece of gear better than the elite players.
4. Mythic plus difficulty increased because it was too easy for casuals to get gear equal to the top players. And the mdi as an esport.
5. LFR difficulty increased to a point it’s not even worth suffering through more than once because casuals need to work for it.
6. People wanted more pvp and we got it with warmode and surprise people migrate to winning faction so now warmode is definately off for casuals.
7. Transmog- all the cool transmog once again is only availble to elite players from mythic raid to a point we can’t even clear mythic raids from the last expansion in a full pug group.
8. I could go on and yes I know I missed some things and there is some decent rng transmogs availble to casuals in warfront and island expeditions.
So pretty much once again the endgame only has content for the elite players who pretty much don’t pay a dime to play wow as they sell carry runs for gold and then log out till content update.
This is what we wanted people and we got it.
1. The problem was not the legendaries it was that RNG was tied so heavily to then. The legendary system was really great - the implementation was bad. Blizzard',s solution: double down on the RNG factor for azerite and remove the legendaries. Bad decision.
2. Most people just didn't like the AP grind. They liked the concept of artifacts and loved the feeling of progression on them. Blizzard solution: remove the artifact weapons and the customization and add them to RNG azerite gear. Keep the AP grind but lessen them. Probably bad decision, but the system can honestly be saved with some tweaks.
3. Titanforging is a problem. I'd rather have the system of gradually nerfing content for casuals then tying RNG further to character progression. Keep warforge in mythic+ up to 380.
4. I am fine with this. Some dungeons need tweaking with the way affixes work but the dungeons are mostly well done.
5. LFR should not be in the game. Blizzard added premade groups which is a more than suitable replacement for what LFR was intended to do. LFR does nothing to keep the game social or get new players interacting and finding social groups.
6. Warmode is unfortunate but the system itself is well done and needs tweaking. It could be improved in numerous ways and the faction imbalance is a big problem. I don't put this on Blizzard at all.
7. Why is this a problem? As someone who used to be in a high end US guild and is now casual af due to having kids I believe the best players should have access to transmogs, titles, and gear we don't.
Although I appreciate and agree with most of what you added I’d like to talk about mythic raid transmog.
My real problem is mythic raid appearances and rated pvp appearances now more than ever in BFA are literally the only high effort art appearances in the game now. And right now only 386 guilds have cleared mythic meaning these art pieces are only available to 13k or 14k people as I have adjusted for alts and bench players might be getting clears now. And to top it all of mythic Tomb and Argus from legions are still virtually impossible to get a group together that can clear the raid.
2. I have zero problem with mythic raiders receiving better items quicker and cool appearances quicker but not exclusively.
Why do some players have to overwhelming urge to constantly blame the state of the game on the players?
LITERALLY NO ONE ASKED FOR AZERITE EVER
Edit: “VOCAL COMMUNITY” is any wow forums user, /WOW REDDIT, or any other major gaming forum.
Basically BFA is what the vocal community asked for, Legion was really onto something and had a ton of replay value.
1. They removed rng Legendarys because we the community can’t have people get bis gear if they are not doing the hardest content or the people doing the hardest content don’t want to be gated by rng legedarys that require you to do all content.
2. Artifact weapons believe it or not where not liked at all by the vocal community because we can’t have everyone have a bis weapon and being able to upgrade it past the worthy players. People also hated the fact a casual could have such a cool weapon.
3. Titanforging was removed from weapons and Azerite gear and proc rate was nerfed. Because we can’t have a casual player have a chance at getting a piece of gear better than the elite players.
4. Mythic plus difficulty increased because it was too easy for casuals to get gear equal to the top players. And the mdi as an esport.
5. LFR difficulty increased to a point it’s not even worth suffering through more than once because casuals need to work for it.
6. People wanted more pvp and we got it with warmode and surprise people migrate to winning faction so now warmode is definately off for casuals.
7. Transmog- all the cool transmog once again is only availble to elite players from mythic raid to a point we can’t even clear mythic raids from the last expansion in a full pug group.
8. I could go on and yes I know I missed some things and there is some decent rng transmogs availble to casuals in warfront and island expeditions.
So pretty much once again the endgame only has content for the elite players who pretty much don’t pay a dime to play wow as they sell carry runs for gold and then log out till content update.
This is what we wanted people and we got it.
I agree, BfA seems like it was developed by mouth-breathers on Reddit, not by professionals.
It's fun. I've enjoyed it. The content they showed at Blizzcon looked good.
11/11/2018 05:59 PMPosted by
Sunday
Why do some players have to overwhelming urge to constantly blame the state of the game on the players?
LITERALLY NO ONE ASKED FOR AZERITE EVER
Because a lot of what BFA is and will be is what was requested by forum posters, streamers and critics alike. And surprise surprise it isn’t very fun.
Azerite is this expansions gimmick to replace artifact weapons or the legendary from wod
11/11/2018 06:02 PMPosted by
Aylith
It's fun. I've enjoyed it. The content they showed at Blizzcon looked good.
Another blizzard employee
I liked Legion
I don't like BfA
I liked Legion and I also like BFA. I never judge an expac until it is finished.
[quote="207682309976"]not really. They did remove things people didn't like, but then twisted them to make it still something people didn't like. [quote]
For real. 'Everyone is complaining about titanforging. So we got rid of tier sets. Everyone is complaining about the AP grind making alts inaccessible. So we kept the AP grind and added new items that are locked behind AP and rep. People are complaining about how all loot is based on rng rather than on grind. So we made all loot personal'.
It's like they saw the community concerns and then something is always lost in translation to the actual solutions.
The problem is, those who are happy don't come to the forums because they don't really need to. Neither do the people who aren't fully happy but don't feel like wasting the energy to complain. Nor the people who weren't happy that just unsubbed. That leaves those that are unhappy who spend their whole day crying on here that they want things easier, faster, etc. This continues expansion after expansion. What does that leave us with? Progressively crappier expansions that have gone from somewhat solid floaters to full on explosive liquid diarrhea with a bit of vomit. Which now people are finally realizing that the game the VOCAL community asked for is an RNG, daily chore, cancer forming nightmare. The problem is it's pretty much too late. /Prayers for classic.
Simply not true. The narrative you have constructed (I'm actually giving you way too much credit here, as I know you did not write this verbal dreck yourself) is at best self-serving. It is intended to advance an agenda that is unsupportable.
You are not special. You do not have special insight. You are just like all the people you are whining about, if not worse. At least they are complaining about the game. You are just complaining about other people.
The only difference between people who read and post in forums and people who do not visit forums is that people who read and post in forums enjoy discussing things with strangers on the internet.
When they are happy, they discuss. When they are unhappy, they discuss.
In all likelihood the opinions expressed in the forums reflect those of the playerbase at large.
If you view everyone who posts on the forum as nothing but fecal waste, look in the mirror. You are posting here too, and your post is one of the saltiest I have seen in a long time.
You are very unhappy, and you are projecting this unhappiness and blaming other people who you know nothing about.
You cannot change the people around you to make them fit into the box of your choosing. If you are unhappy, you can only change yourself.
2. Artifact weapons believe it or not where not liked at all by the vocal community because we can’t have everyone have a bis weapon and being able to upgrade it past the worthy players. People also hated the fact a casual could have such a cool weapon.
The main problems were the AP grind (not fixed) the penalizing of off-specs (not fixed) and having the same weapon for an entire expansion (fixed.)
I think it's good that you can be better at your main spec than at your off-specs, but not to the degree it was in Legion. I think that simply replicating 75% of AP gains to your off-spec weapons would have done the trick.
My opinion is that artifact weapons, while imperfect, were by far the best progression system we ever had at the level cap, and as a bonus they were great at making you feel like you are playing an RPG, something WoW usually fails to do.
5. LFR difficulty increased to a point it’s not even worth suffering through more than once because casuals need to work for it.
There's nothing wrong with this. At all.
Only reason I haven't really done LFR this expac is cause my 760 is finally starting to not being able to handle it anymore.
Eventually I can get some much needed upgrades but other RL stuff comes first.
I asked to be rid of artifact weapons.
They just replaced them with half a dozen other artifact crap.
Ive lost all interest in BfA at this point.
Thankfully two of the allied races are somewhat interesting, though Ive barely logged in in two weeks.
5. LFR should not be in the game. Blizzard added premade groups which is a more than suitable replacement for what LFR was intended to do. LFR does nothing to keep the game social or get new players interacting and finding social groups.
if things like Raider io didn't exist, I would agree with you (and I am very pro LFR). I'm not saying it's a bad tool (GS wasn't a bad tool either), but certain lovely people use it to exclude people (GS + link achieve was the same way).
Yes, I understand the whole 'There needs to be a metric to wheedle out the bad players' argument on this and I don't have a solution to offer.
But until all of the community decides to act decent to one another (this will never happen) then LFR needs to stay being a thing.
LFR does still serve a purpose. Even if you don't like it. And might I remind you that the LFR wings come out like a month after it's been on normal and heroic, so the whole "Forced to run LFR" argument is debunked right there.
Oh really?
Where are the PvP vendors we asked for?
2. Artifact weapons believe it or not where not liked at all by the vocal community because we can’t have everyone have a bis weapon and being able to upgrade it past the worthy players. People also hated the fact a casual could have such a cool weapon.
most people hated them for the never ending, alt killing grind.
if they would have launched without the 20 paragon levels it would have been fine.
1. They removed rng Legendarys because we the community can’t have people get bis gear if they are not doing the hardest content or the people doing the hardest content don’t want to be gated by rng legedarys that require you to do all content.
all the guides were, "on a new toon, grind out your first 2 legendaries, and if they arnt what you want, re-roll, and repeat until you have your BiS legendaries because it will be faster."
if the pitty timers were more generous, it would have been better.
if they had listened to the community who told them before launch that they cant have flavor legendaries and dps legendaries on the same table, because no one will want the flavor legendaries, it would have been just fine.
people hated them because they were losing raid spots over not having dps legendaries vs someone else that did and pulled 15% more damage with overall worse gear.
The problem is, those who are happy don't come to the forums because they don't really need to. Neither do the people who aren't fully happy but don't feel like wasting the energy to complain. Nor the people who weren't happy that just unsubbed. That leaves those that are unhappy who spend their whole day crying on here that they want things easier, faster, etc. This continues expansion after expansion. What does that leave us with? Progressively crappier expansions that have gone from somewhat solid floaters to full on explosive liquid diarrhea with a bit of vomit. Which now people are finally realizing that the game the VOCAL community asked for is an RNG, daily chore, cancer forming nightmare. The problem is it's pretty much too late. /Prayers for classic.
Hell I don't care about easier I just want my spec to be enjoyable like it was in WoD or have them give us some variation of range surv play like they promised for legion and never really did .
I can work around the time gated rng azerite junk if I can enjoy how my toon plays.