BFA had decent early story elements

BFAs leveling story was decent actually. Sets up world building properly.
Although they couldn’t write a war into warcraft, but the noble houses for the alliance and Zan lore for the horde was actually really not bad imo a whole lot better than shadowblands.


Zone Lore has always been good. It’s the Narrative Lore that is bad in WoW.

Incidentally the Zone Lore Writer and Narrative Lore Writer is Danuser now with the Cinematic & Cutscene Writer being Christie Golden.

Christie Golden has a say on all Cutscenes and Cinematics while Danuser has the big say on all Quests and Questlines.

Golden has to write Cutscenes and Cinematics to correspond with the Questlines regardless of whether or not she is capable of properly doing so.


Mostly agree, though the Horde zones were failure after failure so the raid could save us all.

BFA story is seriously underrated. They tried to weave different story lines into one expansion which while not perfect was interesting and entertaining. Even the title Battle for Azeroth was a play on it, meaning both the battle against N’Zoth, saving Azeroth from the wound and the Horde/Alliance war. You could even interpret it as the battle against the Jailers and Sylvanas’ future plans as well. The lore for both Zandalar and Kul’Tiras was just great, Nazjatar and N’Zoth lore was entertaining and exciting. So much in one expansion! OH and Mechagon haha that dungeon was cool!

To be honest I like Shadowlands lore as well. The only sore point is that the first ones are the real god like beings in WoW with robots again… I’m still getting over that one. Otherwise I think it was good too!


sometimes a narrative needs a string of failures so it can build up a big win in the end. the execution can still suck and fail though


Ya but they did it really well. I don’t mind loosening a few battles to win the war in the end.

Kul Tiras is pretty good. It really feels like a proper nation with its various cultural niches explored thoroughly. The only real weak spot of it’s lore/story is the Drust stuff is a little iffy and borders on colonialism apologia.

Really not a fan of Zandalar’s story or lore, though. Zandalari have most of their edges and uniqueness sanded down, instead simply becoming “trolls, but moreso” while also being portrayed as wildly incompetent buffoons who seem incapable of securing anything outside their capital city.

Didn’t like how they retconned the damage from Mists (which could have actually explained why they’re in such a sorry state) and turned Zul into an Old God stooge either. Bwonsamdi, Talanji, and Rastakhan are all fun characters though.


I was under the impression that Nazmir being a swamp full of ruins was the result of Cataclysm damage? It shattered and partially sunk into the sea.

1 Like

It’s kind of unclear? It doesn’t seem like anyone has lived there for a long time. Uldir is not known about. All the cities are ancient ruins, Blood Trolls control everything, and there’s no real sign of recent civilization even though the Cataclysm only happened a few years ago. If it’s meant to be Cataclysm damage it doesn’t really make sense.

The guy in Zul’dazar dismisses the idea of the Cataclysm being a major problem for the island, too, which I don’t think he would do if 1/3 of the entire country was devastated like that.

BfA would have been fine if it had more actual faction war instead of, you know, what it actually was.

Battle of Dazar’Alor was a blast, one of my top 5 raids ever. Genuinelly sad we will almost certainly never get another faction vs faction raid. Oh well.


I loathe the Faction War but agree that in principle BFA could have been better if it had actually kept focus on one storyline instead of trying to do BOTH a Faction War expansion and an Old Gods expansion at the same time. Cata was am Old God expansion with a side of Faction War, and MoP was a Faction War with a side of Old God, but if seems BFA tried to be fully both at once and turned itself into Wet Fart expansion instead.


The BfA as sold to us in the cinematic could’ve been the wellspring for a phenomenal faction war. An offensive Alliance with a focus on the EK felt like the faction’s natural progression with characters like Greymane and Jaina and Turalyon and Alleria heading it up, and players of both sides had long been deeply invested in that continent’s geopolitics. The Alliance already had reasons aplenty to strike at Lordaeron and get rid of Sylvanas; the Horde needed to open this war on the defensive after MoP.

But instead we kicked things off with another war crime, committed by another evil warchief, who galvanized another evil Horde on another quest for world domination, only to be ejected in another Horde rebellion. It was absolute garbage and the minds behind BfA’s faction war should be ashamed of themselves.


You’re not wrong. People commented on the leveling zones at the time. But the WoT and the mandatory war campaign just hung over everything else and poisoned it.


I am not a fan of the faction war, but I really liked this raid because of the traits it had in order to be a faction v. faction raid:

  1. I liked how the raid had sections for both getting into the enemy base, fighting bosses, and then extricating the raid from the enemy base. I wish we had more of these kind of hit-and-run designs for raids and dungeons - especially early-expansion raids/dungeons, so that the overarching villains could keep a little of their impressiveness by being able to chase us out.
  2. Other faction bosses: I felt like the twinned faction-exclusive bosses should have been major characters from the preceding faction incursion WQs to set them up for the raid, or if not, they should have survived and become notable questgivers for their respective sides, but it was still cool to have them.
  3. I liked the setup of having some faction bosses who got to fight and survive afterwards - giving us players the fun of fighting the hyped-up NPCs without killing them and removing them from the story. (I think Jaina should have had a long recovery period, though - what with the new staggering/injured emote in BfA, I was hoping that there would be more time to show off the major NPCs getting injured, rather than the dichotomy of being either Unscathed or Dead.)

I hope some of these elements from BoD can carry forward to future raids, rather than getting buried as I hope a lot of other BfA stuff does.

1 Like

Yeah Zandalar and Kul Tiras are legitimately good. They tell a pretty good ‘uncovering a conspiracy’ story where we learn about the societies that dwell on the islands through the adventure.

It’s really great at passive world building. I like how, for example, you learn about the Zandalari caste system and the crime troubles at their docks just through quests and exploration. Nobody ever forces you into an expedition dump. It’s all background stuff to pick up on.

Shame the overall war story was caijun cooked walrus squirts. I still think that if the Horde and Alliance had been merely drawn into a preexisting Zandalari Kul Tiran conflict it would’ve been a lot better.


It’s a shame that the battle at the Undercity didn’t start off the war.


They won’t let the Alliance be anything but fortright and heroic. Consequently the Horde has to be completely depraved and out of control because if they showed an ounce of reasonable animosity the conflict would be settled diplomatically as the Alliance can’t fight a war where they’re in the wrong at any level.

It was actually a bit ridiculous playing the Alliance side of things. Because the Horde is somehow even more barbaric, launching a massacare of Brennadam for no apparent reason. Seriously Sylvanas doesn’t even order them to. She says knock out the area’s ability to support rhe war effort and they interpret that as turn flamethrowers on unarmed and cowering civilians. It was such over the top, hateful violence that I found it funny. It came off like a Cyanide & Happiness cartoon. I’ve never seen the Horde that angry at anything. Just went full berserker mode on essentially a suburb for no particular reason.

And on the flipside of course anything questionable the Alliance does is either explained to be 100% above the board and totally justifiable. Or just outright doesn’t happen as is the case in Vol’Dun, where Blueside you just startle the Vulpera with fear totems instead of setting them on fire.

Seriously the Rendorei are using void necromancy to corrupt wildlife and raise a T-Rex skeleton, which is always a bit morally questionable but in this scenario is an act of profane sacrilege to the Zandalari. But no nevermind they’re doing this as a psychological warfare tactic to reduce casualties on both sides. They make a zombified dinosaurs with maddening whispers from beyond the furthest stars and the story says it’s the humane thing to do.

They could’ve nuked a Horde orphanage and it would’ve turned out that was actually an Imp Mother and her demons disguised with dark magic so the Alliance was doing them a solid.


Yeah both islands are a great set up for the expansion. It had a lot of story telling protentional. Even the first part of the war campaign was well done. You were leading strikes and scouting the other factions territories.
Stormsong Valley though is an issue. It starts out strong but the main plot is resolved extremely quick with only like 1/4 of the zone being used. Then its just random events like horde invasion, quillboars, nagas and pirates.


I agree with Stormsong’s weak ending, but like how Tiragarde Sound starts basically the same way. Exploring that strip of land on the southern side of the moutains separating Stormsong Valley from the rest of the land. Introducing several of the threats you’ll meet later in the game. As you travel east to rest, first you fights a hag and her minions, then troggs and a few Horde pirates, then finally at Anglepoint Wharf it goes full-blown Old Gods. I actually find the rest of the zone, where you help Flynn fight Freehold and expose Ashvane fairly boring.

Yeah you really had to do Tiragarde Sound first for those 3 zones to flow well. TS really felt like an intro to the expansion for alliance. I did Drustvar first and was like “didn’t I already end your covenant?” when I did TS second.