I won a roll for Deathbringer, and instead of giving it to me he awarded it to his warrior friend. There were no loot rules except head reserved. He also won’t tell you pre-kill that the sinew is reserved.
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The real crime here is Ony dropping Deathbringers for rando pugs while guilds who’ve been dropping her for 3-4 months have yet to see their first.
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The item was rolled off and awarded to the person with the highest roll, excluding your’s, as it was: 1) significantly later than everyone else’s, and 2) understood to be a joke roll. The raid leader asked in Discord several times if it was a meme roll, and received no response, so the roll was disregarded. It was considered a joke roll because it was a protection paladin rolling for it. Deathbringer is one of the strongest 1h melee weapons in the game, even well into BWL - it is used by physical damage dealers primarily, as it bears no attributes. Therefore, the only two classes/specs it is reasonably used by are enhancement shaman (who generally have low sustained DPS in PvE compared to rogues/warriors) and fury warriors.
Protection paladins themselves in vanilla/classic are not viable. They might be fun to play, or useful for clearing some trash, but they have no taunt and are strongly limited by their mana pool. Furthermore, all of their threat comes from Righteous Fury, which only affects holy damage. Therefore, a substantial increase in a protection paladin’s physical damage output translates to very little actual benefit. This is exactly why spell damage weapons (e.g. Azuresong Mageblade) are their weapons of choice.
To summarize: your spec is a meme, high dps weapons without bonus spellpower are trash for you, and you responded slowly and poorly during the raid. You were near last in DPS, and did almost no damage to any of the whelps - you were literally dead weight. And now you’re accusing someone of “giving it to his warrior friend” which is a blatant misrepresentation of the truth, and tbh bordering on slander. If you want items that are trash for your spec, over the actual classes that use the item, that carried you during the raid, do it in your own guild raids. I personally refuse to entertain any sense of entitlement for items that weren’t made for your class, in a PUG. gg.
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I said good day, sir!!!
You say that prot paladins are not viable, but the MT of our ony was a prot paladin. Our first wipe was because we didn’t have enough/proper tanks to handle welps, so I put on my tank gear and tanked the welps keeping them off of the healers.
Lastly, the loot rules did not say “if we don’t think you deserve it then you won’t get it.” Loot rules were “ony head reserved.” I rolled, I won, it still was a huge upgrade, and it was awarded to someone else. No compensation, no explanation from the raid leader, but instead I get spit on and told I’m a joke.
Nevertheless, the GM said,
I know this person you’re reporting has been less than stellar though and decided to just loot something selfishly. I want to be transparent as possible here though and warn that, we will not redistribute loot that is taken but we can remove it so no one gets it and even action someone who is misbehaving and causing issues on Pagle.
This looks like a reasonable response.
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Every single loot rule can’t be stated - some things are implicitly agreed upon based on community standards. No raid leader would need to explicitly say “hunters cannot roll on Bonereaver’s Edge”. If a hunter rolled on it against warriors, they would be passed over, and there would be no controversy. It is the common law, if you will, that items that significantly benefit one class or spec, and yield almost no benefit to another class or spec, that the no-benefit party is disqualified outright. Like if a rogue rolled up with Thrash Blade (35 dps) and rolled against casters for Azuresong Mageblade (42.5 dps), it seems absolutely absurd that the rogue would be awarded the item. Do raid leaders ever say this explicitly? No. They don’t have to. I don’t see any rogues on the forums crying about their “rightfully won” mageblade being “ninjaed”.
You clearly have never played vanilla, and don’t understand how the mechanics of this game work. Almost no one even considered being a paladin tank in the original game. The sole reason it seems relatively commonplace now is that people come from retail where paladin tanks are very strong, and think that they can do that same thing here. You cannot, it is a different game with different mechanics and different class balance.
I highly doubt that a GM would intervene in this situation (and I really, really hope they won’t), given that your issue is with a loot rule not being explicitly stated that should never need to be explicitly stated, and never is explicitly stated. It is clearly within the domain of the well-established community standards of vanilla/classic WoW. This isn’t new territory. This stuff was understood and enforced for years a decade and a half ago. If a paladin back then felt entitled to roll on Deathbringer, they’d be laughed out of the raid.
tl;dr go back to retail
PS the main tank was a warrior
Nice long post, but I disagree. Prot paladins were not very viable in vanilla-retail, but there are many that are able to make it work in classic. There are a number of times where a prot paladin is as useful as if not more than a prot war, and I enjoy playing as a protadin which means you can’t bully me into not rolling against you.
I had a MS roll, it was an upgrade, and I wasn’t with a guild that has implicitly agreed upon rules - this was a PUG and the only rules were “ony head reserved.” Next time make the rules “you can only roll on your bis, ony head reserved, hunter item reserved” and then build your group.
And I looked into Deathbringer for prot paladins. Other people had the same “concerns” as you, and several people have listed protadin builds using Deathbringer.
I was robbed of this weapon and roll, and I’m not going to be grouping with you or any raids lead by Noggedegg or the “Nat Pagle is my Dad” guild. Hopefully others will be weary of grouping with any of you.
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were the dead weight or the dead weight’s friends not in discord when people, including the master looter, were asking if that was a late meme roll?
i have the chat log for that night. the item was called for roll in raid warning at 00:46:57. two players meme rolled at 00:47:23, the dead weight rolled at 00:47:29, the dead weight was asked if they wanted it by the raid leader at 00:47:43 (which was also echoed in discord before that), no response was received so the item went out to the winner without a meme roll at 00:48:06.
here’s the full transcript of raid chat and rolls for deathbringer (with names edited out because of forum rules)
12/23 00:46:57.340 [Raid Warning] RaidLeader: Deathbringer melee dps
12/23 00:46:59.158 |Hchannel:RAID|h[Raid]|h Chatter1: let me get Deathbringer rogues can use axes in two expansions
12/23 00:46:59.829 FuryWarrior1 rolls 2 (1-100)
12/23 00:47:01.272 ProtWarrior rolls 58 (1-100)
12/23 00:47:03.121 FuryWarrior2 rolls 48 (1-100)
12/23 00:47:04.954 FuryWarrior3 rolls 53 (1-100)
12/23 00:47:06.703 FuryWarrior4 rolls 23 (1-100)
12/23 00:47:10.639 ProtPaladin1 rolls 21 (1-100)
12/23 00:47:11.373 |Hchannel:RAID|h[Raid]|h FuryWarrior2: rip
12/23 00:47:15.224 |Hchannel:RAID|h[Raid]|h ProtPaladin1: jk anyway
12/23 00:47:16.912 |Hchannel:RAID|h[Raid]|h ProtPaladin1:
12/23 00:47:23.164 Mage rolls 20 (1-100)
12/23 00:47:24.621 |Hchannel:RAID|h[Raid Leader]|h RaidLeader: FuryWarrior3
12/23 00:47:24.621 RetPaladin rolls 20 (1-100)
12/23 00:47:24.621 |Hchannel:RAID|h[Raid]|h Mage: ****
12/23 00:47:29.684 |Hchannel:RAID|h[Raid]|h Chatter2: Nice FuryWarrior3 =)
12/23 00:47:29.983 ProtPaladin2 rolls 84 (1-100)
12/23 00:47:31.705 |Hchannel:RAID|h[Raid]|h FuryWarrior1: fuuuuuuuu
12/23 00:47:35.024 |Hchannel:RAID|h[Raid]|h RetPaladin: lol
12/23 00:47:40.448 |Hchannel:RAID|h[Raid]|h FuryWarrior2: gimmeee
12/23 00:47:41.608 |Hchannel:RAID|h[Raid]|h Mage: ProtPaladin2 memeroll or srs
12/23 00:47:43.761 |Hchannel:RAID|h[Raid Leader]|h RaidLeader: ProtPaladin2 do u want it
12/23 00:47:45.920 |Hchannel:RAID|h[Raid]|h FuryWarrior1: o
12/23 00:47:47.011 |Hchannel:RAID|h[Raid]|h FuryWarrior1: no
12/23 00:47:54.581 |Hchannel:RAID|h[Raid]|h RetPaladin: i want the bag lol
12/23 00:48:06.591 FuryWarrior3 receives loot: Deathbringer.
you didn’t respond to the question from the raid leader until after the next item was called and most of the rolls had already gone out
12/23 00:48:33.882 |Hchannel:RAID|h[Raid]|h ProtPaladin2: i use Thrash Blade that was a real roll
so while i have nothing positive nor negative to say of the raid leader other than he was obviously inexperienced (he wasn’t really leading, he recruited pugs and other seemingly random people were leading it for him), the only thing i can get from all of this is that you can only blame yourself for not responding to simple questions being asked in chat AND in discord as the real roll had already ended and others had already started to meme roll.
It looks like he responded in 45 seconds. I understand not giving a Prot Paladin Deathbringer, but 45 seconds is a fine response time when you have post kill conversations going on. It should have been noted and dealt with.
I agree that giving it to the fury warrior was probably the best decision, but this whole situation could have been handled better. There’s plenty of time left @Badnewsbeary. Farm out a Flurry Axe for an even better Prot paladin choice!
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Geez, 45 seconds to respond?
By that time, you can roll on the next item AND 1-40 bag.
Glad I play retail, personal loot is the best idea since sliced breads.
- I was not dead weight; I actively tanked whelps to keep them off healers, provided a FR aura, blessed, dps’d, and healed.
- Don’t blame me for others who troll. It’s not my fault they trolled, but 6 seconds is not a significant amount of time to consider the differences between what you have and what you could roll on.
- It was a legit roll, the RL even had enough time to chat about the loot. Even if I had enough time to respond to him, he would have given it away anyways. Apparently protadins don’t deserve anything but banana suit.
- Bad manners calling me dead weight.
- I hope the GM sees what happened here and removes the loot. I mostly blame Noggedegg, but since the warrior hearthed and logged quickly to avoid clearing this up this is just as much his fault.
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23 seconds is a significant amount of time to respond to a simple question (even more since this was asked in discord before it was stated in chat). i shouldn’t expect you to be able to read my post when you couldn’t read chat or listen in discord, i guess.
you just indicated above that you thought you weren’t given enough time. you’ve been caught in your own lie.
cry me a river, you’re the one trying to start problems here over your own inability to listen.
the gm will have access to all of the chat logs above indicating the same thing we can all read there.
sorry if you’re not getting the answer you want.
I shouldn’t have to reply that it was a legit roll when obviously it was. I was excited I had won and I was talking with friends how excited I was that I won the roll. And it appears to be 6 seconds between the call for roll and when I rolled. Your line-by-line dissection of my post is intentionally twisting my words in an attempt to change my meaning. I won’t be bullied by horrible people like you. No one else had to say that their roll was legit, and that is your only defense.
It’s a game, I’m playing it how I want to play as a protadin, I made a difference in helping that raid, it was a legit roll, and you should be ashamed for being so rude and a bully. Also, all of us should be mad at the trolls who fake-roll instead of the people who actually roll for real.
I’m glad others see that this was poorly lead. I’m going to move on and let the GM’s handle it from here out.
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you’re still unable to read. you’re not being bullied, don’t fall back onto some crap like that. i gave a proper response to your previous post and the only thing you have to say is, again, a lie about your time given to respond.
so based on what you’re saying, you also weren’t in discord when the same question was being asked? so you weren’t following those instructions, either? you shouldn’t be surprised when people avoid you, as well, Bitshin.
again, i’m sorry this isn’t the response you want. please read my first post again and try to learn how to read timestamps. or don’t, it doesn’t change the facts i’ve presented.
Prior to the raid starting me and other members asked the raid to join discord several times and gave out links. When looting the axe I asked at least 3 times if your roll was a “meme roll” because everyone was stating it was. No response was given, so I gave it to the second highest roller, not my “warrior friend”. Furthermore, sinew wasn’t reserved at the beginning. At the end of raid, this one hunter gave the other hunters in the raid and I gold for the sinew to be reserved to him.