Yea, this is a problem with all paladins. As a Holy Paladin my build does not incorporate any new ability, anything borrowed from Prot or Ret besides BoSpellwarding. I could go out of my way to get Rebuke which is a bit poggers, but it’s use in PvE is pretty slim…
People can say it’s class envy and whatever, but I play WoW for fun, and my expansion experience is going to be 1 altered ability, while Shamans get Gust of Wind, Lightning Lasso, Thunder Storm, Poison Cleanse Totem, Tranquil Air Totem, Nature’s Swiftness, etc… to play around with?
I dont know I think it would be cool to have Holy split into 2 spec instead.
1 that is Inquisitor (Melee healer like we have now)
1 Cleric. Plate wearer using 2 hand weapon/staff who play with long range heal and buff player. Like it would get all Blessing back (Eternal flame/ Sacred Shield) Blessing of seasons. Also ne thing they could do to make Season better would be to make it so the Bonus dmg dealed from Summer and Winter also heal a player. It would make them more interesting and it would be similar to Nature Vigil,Ancestral guidance, Vampiric Embrace.
I was thinking of the idea of having a ranged holy DPS as a 4th spec. Maybe they could make it an actual hybrid healing/ranged dps spec, and you talent how far you want to go in one direction or another, as well as have a “mode shift” of some kind and choose whether you want to have more healing or more dps - so it’s not like disc priest because disc can’t really compete in dps like that if they wanted to. I think it would be pretty interesting.
The only issue with that is most baseline ability for Pal are melee ones. (Except Jugement) so it kinda doesnt really work that well. And also I jut noticed that no other spec other than Ret has a Holy Power singet target dps ability. All we do is that bumb Shield of righteous. Would be nice to have one for prot and Holy.
It could work othewise I guess but not sure Blizz could do it justice sadly
Those abilities can be “replaced” by ranged abilities, like Final Verdict does to Templar’s Verdict. Crusader Strike > Beam of Light, or whatever. They’d just need to put the work in. I’d totally try out a spec like that.
I would too. But I think it would be cooler if it was a support one with blessing to player and such. And most of its dmg would be Indirect dmg via blessing and such. But the blessing would also last more than 30sec except for the strong ones. Like Blessing season would be 4 different abilities with Winter and Spring as 1h blessing and Summer Autaumn as Greater blessing that last 30sec. Each player can have 1 blessing and 1 greater. So you would have to really work around that. Even get a variant of Beacon that does radiant dmg around the affected player.
Like that it could focus more on the dps blessing branch or the support ones. a bit similar to what you see.
Idk, personally I would rather see Priest get a Bow and Arriow (Tyrande) spec before Paladins become more of a caster.
Though I wish all paladins had Exorcism and Holy got Denounce, that would be cool.
I think these new trees do a good job on creating theme styles of play, if they are done correctly. We’re just missing the tools to do so.
If we were to do the following to the Class Tree:
Condense Aura talents
Condense the Divine Steed Talents
Condense the BoP talents
Remove Seal of the Templar
Remove the filler talents
Not extreme, not lot, but just “cutting out the fat.”
This is our tree without those “filler” or “stretched” talents.
What are we gaining here? What playstyles are you “honing in on?”
Edit:
I’m not saying Paladins should not have filler talents, every class is going to have filler talents here and there.
What I’m asking is, if you strip away that “fluff” are you satisfied with those core elements. Are the core fantasy play styles, utility, whatever spells being accomplished?
I think the class tree should have started with Sac on the left side, BoP / Spellwarding in the middle, and Freedom (with a little extra taken from Unbound Freedom) on the right. The idea is to emphasize a core class mechanic while giving a taste of what to expect with each spec.
Anyway, the trees are a mess and Zaim deserves beta access.
Wouldnt change much I mean Priest rarely hit with auto either way but it would be similar to the wand.
Prot and Holy really need a HP spender single target dps ability all they have is that dumb shield of righteous.
The issue with your build is Talent ‘‘Jugement’’ only work on shield of Righetous nd same for Seal of reprisal cause Holy has no dps Hp Spender other than that
There’s more filler than that. I’d argue Of Dusk and Dawn and Seal of Order are basically filler too. What kind of interaction is “be at 5 HP” and “be at 0 HP”? It’s a nothing interaction. It’s not an interesting choice in gameplay. It’s boring. Same with Aspirations of Divinity. Use Crusader Strike, oh boy. Seal of Reprisal could be removed as well and nobody would care.
Gameplay or style wise? Style wise Judgement is kind of the “magic” Paladins use, but, Gameplay wise it’s Holy Power and TV that is the core of paladin gameplay.
I really don’t care for the structure of the Prot pally tree. It seems spastic and not thematically organized, like they just threw all the ideas down as a handful and just connected them where they lay.
AvS talents on the left, except Faith Barricade on the right…
Consecrate talents on the right, except Consecrated Ground…
Have to spec into a Word of Glory talent to get to Crusader’s Judgment, and Bastion of Light is completely opposite, wut?
I’m hoping that will improve. Definitely needs cleaning up.
I believe he means (specifically in regards to DF) the rotation is really built around the stacked interactions with Judgement.
Yes, from a basic viewpoint the spec is a builder spender around HP and TV. However if you actually look at most of the rotational interaction it is driven through Judgement.
I believe Zaim did a good job of listing many of those interactions earlier, which for a single ability is many.
Kind of like what they are also trying to do (poorly) with Consecration.
Hey friend, might just want to change a word in your 2nd sentence probably to sporadic or something similar otherwise you might receive an auto silence.
I got one the other day for implying a curse word lol.
It’s still focused around HP, but Judgement is, more or less, a requirement for the ideal TV. It’s not however an intersection that is always met. HP is an intersection that is always met.
After seeing the updated tree with talents moved and connections moved around they made it much worse. The pathing now is so restricted and we have so many dead end talent paths.
I don’t understand their logic. All three trees suffer from a lack of synergistic talents and paths. Way too many stat fluff talents and forced choice when other classes have had these removed.
You don’t see Monks having to choose between Dampen Harm and Diffuse Magic. Which all 3 of their defensives are in the shared tree. Why are our defensives placed in our specialization trees? Divine Protection should be in the Shared Tree for all paladins.
At this point I sound like a broken record. I wish they’d acknowledge us. At least then I’d feel less depressed about our situation.
I don’t mean sporadic. I used the word I meant. As in arrhythmic and irregular.
You’re going down one path and it suddenly veers over to the other side of the tree and now the path you’re on is a completely different set up. Like you had a spasm in mid-step.
Agreed, it’s not which is more of a problem in that design.
It’s static and uninteractive despite holding so many triggers, one of the reasons Ret’s and many other specs have such shallow rotations these days.
You just play the spec one way ad infinitum.
If Judgement has so many different interactions with the rotation you should be able to interact with that as a player instead of just hitting it on cd.
If it wasn’t a HP generator and had a lower cd for example it could be specifically a move to empower your spenders for example. And because you have more freedom to cast it you could make choices like spreading it to multiple targets before DS etc.
Currently the rotation is all so flat, despite all the nonsense they’ve added.
