Beta released, R.I.P Paladin

Classes Paladin
63

I dunno, seems pretty straight forward, we just lack the actual spells.

Tier 1 Holy:

  1. LoH
  2. Repent/Blinding Light
  3. Judgement of Light
  4. Divine Steed (Speed of Light)
  5. Cleanse
  6. [Extra] - New Ideas

Tier 1 Prot:

  1. Devo Aura
  2. BoP/BoSW
  3. Divine Protection
  4. Turn Evil
  5. BoF
  6. [Extra] - New Ideas

Tier 1 Ret:

  1. HoW
  2. Fist of Justice
  3. Judgement of Justice
  4. Pursuit of Justice
  5. Rebuke
  6. [Extra] - New Ideas

Tier 1 Filler talents:

  1. +2% Crit
  2. +2% Mastery
  3. +2% Armor
  4. Whatever “filler talents”

Moving on to the next gate:

Tier 2 Holy:

  1. Consecration Heal?
  2. WoG AoE Heal like Legion?
  3. Blessing of Wisdom
  4. Concentration Aura

Tier 2 Prot:

  1. Blessing of Sacrifice
  2. Uther’s Devotion
  3. Blessing of Kings
  4. Aura of Mercy / Divine Guardian

Tier 2 Ret:

  1. Unbound Freedom or Jurisdiction (PvP Talent)?
  2. Holy Avenger (Retribution Passive)
  3. Blessing of Might
  4. Sanctity Aura

Tier 2 Additional Talents:

  1. Avenging Wrath
  2. Divine Purpose

Right there I just listed 15 Tier 1 talents and 12 tier 2 talents that are just Utility and filler.

1 Like
64

That’s what I mean. They would all have to be different, which isn’t what they’re going for. They want the class trees to be the same, pretty much.

65

Well I think so much of the Paladin class is similar, that they are finding themselves with an incomplete list.

They don’t have 15+ (5/5/5) unique abilities for Paladins, so we see things like Divine Toll and Divine Protection copy pasted. We see things like Auras and Divine Steed spread across multiple talents.

It’s gotta be terrifying for them, lol. The need to add in more spells to Paladins, but what are they and what do they do?

3 Likes
66

Can we not have stat filler talents? They are just a waste of space.

3 Likes
67

The only type of stat i’d be ok with is Haste, as that actually does something to the rotation, it makes it faster so it actually has a gameplay impact and the gcd drops the more you have of it.
I really like when haste is above 30%, exactly 33% is the bomb, that’s where the sweet spot it.

But Mastery for example… just more dmg, so uni-dimensional and boring, versatility is the same.

Crit is a bit above the two as i like seeing crits specifically and i usually have a low % of it, but just a bit above. Though it would be nice to have something guaranteed, like every 3rd Blade of Justice will crit type of talent and not 5% more crit on BoJ…

1 Like
68

First Tier
Holy:
Assuming the starting node is Lay on Hands

  1. Blessing of Sacrifice
  2. Cleanse
  3. Judgment of Light
  4. Sacred Shield
  5. Repentance

Prot:
Assuming the starting node is Blessing of Freedom

  1. Devo Aura
  2. Divine Sacrifice
  3. Divine Protection
  4. Blessing of Protection
  5. Hammer of Justice

Ret:
Assuming the starting node is Hammer of Wrath

  1. Fist of Justice
  2. Rebuke
  3. Judgment of Wisdom
  4. Divine Steed
  5. Hand of Hindrance

Second Tier
Holy:

  1. Golden Path
  2. Blessing of Wisdom
  3. Divine Purpose
  4. Concentration Aura + Aura of Mercy

Prot:

  1. Divine Sacrifice
  2. Blessing of Kings
  3. Crusader/Retribution Aura passive
  4. Divine Guardian (upgraded divine sac)

Ret:

  1. Blessing of Might
  2. Longarm of the Law
  3. Aura of Reckoning
  4. Seraphim

Getting into the final tier I think Divine Toll should make its way here as its in every tree already. Sanctified Wrath, Avenging Crusader, Mad Paragon.

1 Like
69

Yeah, and it all just kindof falls into place. You just make it generic enough that all 3 specs can utilize it in some fashion and having a “theme” or an over arching idea really makes those cap stone talents feel that much more satisfying.

It’s a bit easier with other classes because they have a bit more diversity in their classes. Holy - Disc - Shadow are 3 pretty distinct specs, same with Frost/Unholy, Frost/Arcane/Fire, etc…

But you see how simple it is when you just break it down, and how much fun you can have with these underling fantasies.

Tier 1:

  • Divine Steed
  • Crusader Aura

Tier 2:

  • Steed of Glory
  • Sanctified Retribution
    • While Crusader Aura is active, increases the range of all abilities by 3 yards and all allies with your aura gain 3% additional damage.

Tier 3:

  • Seal of the Crusader
  • Crusader’s Banner
    • Mounting on your Divine Steed causes you to raise a Crusader’s Banner, granting 100 Mastery and 30% increased movement speed to you and your 2 nearest allies, and preventing movement speed from being reduced below 100%. Lasts 8 sec.

Fill in 5 more generic talents and it takes 5 min to make a Crusader theme pathing.

Making new abilities, balancing them is challenging, its not so simple… but you get the idea.

1 Like
70

Imgur

Not trying to beat a dead horse here but this is Beta… its just you know, take a moment and fill in the blanks. lol

1 Like
71

Retribution Paladins coming in on Divine Steed be like:

3 Likes
72

The part where he slowly walks after dismounting and hopes that yelling at people will stop them is far too relatable

8 Likes
73

I humbly submit the Talents and abilities that I’ve provided previously. I’ve tweaked some of the Auras and Blessings based on critiques, but I’ve kept the concept paths for Crusaders, Justiciars, Guardians, Retribution and Holy Paladins, revolving around Auras and proper Seals.

I’ve also kept the Angelic and Archangelic Talents, because lord do we need something like them. I don’t expect our Paladin development team to take any of it, I just really hope they see what many of us are asking for, conceptually speaking.

1 Like
74

Yea, if paladin, ret specifically, is bad im do e with wow. The last 2 xpacs i had to reroll cus ret was just not good enough. Ret is honestly the 1 spec i truly enjoy, and im nlt willing to play a 3rd xpac with them being ignored.

Would rather just unsub tbh.

7 Likes
75

I think it’s just too bad the class fantasy purity standard that all Paladin spells and mechanics have to get through isn’t lorded over other classes. Sorry WW Monk you cast too many alcohol themed spells in a short window you now have the liver failure debuff and will be tinted yellow to demonstrate you have Jaundice. Perhaps a Priest could heal you, but keep in mind his heal spell can only be cast when you pay them a WoW Token of gold.

Also the sheer number of consecration talents in both the Paladin and Ret tree combined is actually a joke.

4 Likes
76

if our only communication is gonna be “long arm is fun but haha we are deleting it” then i am just going to play wrath when ret was actually fun.

8 Likes
77

honestly as a shadow priest, i felt the same a week ago. blizzard is surprisingly listening. stay vocal, stay constructive and positive. be pleasant, but be relentless. you will get your changes. i know with your history its hard to believe, but shadow priests have gone through the same thing. we struggled with gameplay since legion as rets have.

keep in mind, blizzard HAS to make dragonflight successful. if not its RIP WoW which is the cash cow. cant have 3 failed expansions in a row.

5 Likes
78

That’s exactly my hope because of the amount of players who do play paladin. We’re easily top three classes.

But right now all three specs are bad. I just find it hard to be optimistic with the clock rapidly running out. Tick tock.

8 Likes
79

I mean yeah I get your meaning. We had pretty divided abilities before talent trees went away. It was pretty clear that Holy was meant for healing and removing debuffs. Protection was about defending, delaying foes, covering allies, and being a bulwark of Light. Retribution feels like it lost its identity when we just became a 2min CD dps. Ret used to not just be damage, but proactive buffs, movement, replenishment, dps off-healing. At least then we weren’t as useless outside of wings CD.

6 Likes
80

I still dont understand why Gift of the golden val’kyr and Righteous protector cost 2 point while Resolute Defender only cost 1. They all do the same put them all on a 1 point each.

Also quite mad. The Mad Paragon talent doesnt affect Jugement anymore

1 Like
81

Yeah, and I think this puts us in a very awkward situation when compared to our fellow classes.

A majority of Ret mains want to be compared to DK/Warr. We are plate wearing classes and we want our toolkit to be about the same strength.

  • Where they have Death Grip and Heroic Leap, we want Falling Sword.
  • Where they have Berserker’s Rage and Lichborne, we want BoSanc.
  • Where they have Bitter Immunity and Will of the Necropolis, we want Reign of Endless Kings.

Obviously this focuses on a mix of DPS/Tank.

But most Holy mains, are probably internally screaming that they don’t want to be compared to DK/Warr, but instead Shaman and Evoker.

  • Where Shaman have Spirit Walker’s Grace, we want Divine Favor.
  • Where Shaman have Cleansing Totem, we want Resistance Aura.
  • Where Shaman have Mana Tide Totem, we want Divine Plea/Blessing of Wisdom.
  • Where Shaman have Tremor Totem, we want Improved Concentration Aura.
  • Where Evoker have Zephyr, we want some kind of Vigor Aura or spell.
  • Where Evoker have Time Spiral, we want some kind of Fanaticism spell.

So when we look at our talent trees, our class, we are literally half a class. We have no utility too even fill in that basic utility sheet.

There should be about 11 Prot utility nodes in the tree. Currently, if we count Divine Protection, we have 5.

  1. Devo Aura
  2. Divine Protection
  3. BoP/BoSW
  4. BoSac
  5. BoFreedom
  6. __
  7. __
  8. __
  9. __
  10. __
  11. __

And that’s just Prot, we need 11 Holy and Ret ones too… Where’s our spells Blizzard?! lol

6 Likes
82

I wish my Devotion Aura would work like Earthen wall Totem to be honest or at least during Aura Mastery. Or even a passive buff on each aura if you pick Aura Mastery. I dont feel like I master anything if I can only buff my aura every 3min. Rest of the time they are the same as any other spec. I dont even have any talent to reduce its cooldown either. Heck I master nothing in the end

1 Like