A solution to this would be to have Consecration apply a DoT to enemies that step into the circle. Could last the full 12 second duration, but if not that, even a few seconds would help a lot.
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It’s crazy how we have heaps of reasonable ideas from regular players yet the devs either can’t or refuse to even think of one solution.
The interesting thing with your idea is that (from what others have mentioned) Exorcism’s interaction works off Consecration applying a debuff on targets that receive damage from Consecration.
A debuff/burn like you suggest would literally remove the need for them tochave created an additional debuff for it to trigger off.
4 Likes
I believe that’s the way Consecration worked in Vanilla.
youtu.be/_IGdNQfsrYU?t=1899
Notice the warrior leaves Cons but still has a debuff with the Cons icon and continues to take DoT damage.
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Huh, now that is interesting. So they thought of that all the way back in vanilla but then got rid of it for… reasons?
I would guess that’s because it wasn’t supposed to work like that - the tooltip never said that, so far as I’m aware and certainly since BC it’s been a ground AoE - you stand in it, you get burned, you leave, the burning stops.
So basically like Maiden in lower Kara.
You step into the Consecration you get a debuff lasting X seconds.
I liked that ability and wished i had it… with Holy Wrath, for reasons. xD
What’s required is a will from the devs to actually want to improve it…
Some more misc feedback.
Change Templar’s Vindication to the following: Templar’s Verdict and Justicar’s Vengeance have a 15 / 30% chance to deal 30% additional damage. Are we serious about making JV a real talent? Then TV talents need to affect it.
I also made a second change here. It’s no longer “a chance to strike again” because that separates the damage into two attacks. The result is the same, but the floating combat text is streamlined into a larger and more satisfying number.
Next, Righteous Verdict should do this: Increases the damage of Templar’s Verdict and Justicar’s Vengeance by 5%. I see this and I’m mildly excited. I see the actual talent and I’m thinking please don’t make me take this talent, please don’t make me take this talent. It doesn’t change your rotation but can fall off at no fault of your own. It doesn’t include JV. It clogs your buff bar with nonsense.
Swap Righteous Verdict with the Selfless Healer / Healing Hands. RV’s current location is not a bad spot for a utility talent, while the new location leads directly into our other TV talents. Smooth.
Judgment (the talent) is useless for Holy and Prot and should therefore be moved to the Ret tree. What if it replaced Virtuous Command? At two ranks, Judgment causes the target to take 50% more damage from your next finisher. The result? Two similar effects that feel okay → one that feels great.
Empyrean Endowment doesn’t feel great with the thirty second debuff, and I don’t think I want Vanquisher’s Hammer back. What if we ditched this mechanic altogether? Move Empyrean Power down to replace it. Then make it so EP can be triggered by either Crusader Strike or Hammer of Wrath.
Here I’m once again consolidating similar talents, and EP is the more fun one because we get to actively press Divine Storm. Adding HoW as a trigger is great because HoW doesn’t have a lot of talents, whereas Judgment has too many (or rather too many things happen when we hit Judgment as Zaim has pointed out).
Not sure about the best way to do this, but I think Zeal should be where Divine Storm is now, followed by a flow of uninterrupted Judgment talents. I have my reasoning for this, but decide for yourself if Zeal feels right there.
I don’t think Improved CS and Fires of Justice make CS a more fun ability. Delete them both. I still strongly believe Ret’s best approach to CS is for BoJ to replace it and work from there. But if that’s not happening, what if we added a CS talent beneath BoJ, on the second row and to the left of Art of War? And another CS talent under that, on the third row where Holy Crusader currently resides. Brainstorming here… CS has a 12% chance to reset BoJ’s CD, followed by “CS damage is increased by 50%” (it winds up at about 115% damage).
See where I moved Timely Judgment? It now reduces the cooldown of Judgment and CS by 1 sec. And later, Blade of Wrath can double the chance of Art of War and CS to reset BoJ. Getting a little tired for big explanations, but basically I think CS talents should be early in the tree and next to each other. I also tried to give a logical reason for why these talents would all be connected to each other, such as an interaction between BoJ and CS.
Anyway, moving on.
Ashes to Ashes and Ashes to Dust… With such a low chance, what if Art of War doesn’t reset Wake until Wake is nearly off cooldown? And when I use the actual ability Seraphim, and then get these watered-down Sera procs, will that extend the duration or what?
All these watered-down mechanics. I’d rather have one or the other at full power. Or let us have both at full power with increased costs. And then of course there’s Divine Toll with Divine Resonance as a follow-up rather than Ringing Clarity…
7 Likes
According to players with alpha access, the Seraphim buff from Ashes to Ashes isn’t watered down. The talent calculator from wowhead is just plain wrong. Seraphim from Ashes to Ashes = normal Seraphim.
Blinding Light into Holy Wrath. Perfectly balanced… lulz.
1 Like
Remember in MoP when Templar’s Verdict was one of the hardest hitting strike in the game, but almost nobody realised because it’s damage was spread out over a whole bunch of seal procs, extra damage procs, DoTs, and who knows what else?
Minor but weird thing I noticed: baseline spells go into the class tab of the spellbook, while anything learned from either tree goes into the spec-specific tab. Probably not the way it should work.
Thanks for the correction! I checked on the PTR and you’re right that this is the full version, but it’s not just Wowhead’s calculator that’s messed up, it reads 4% on the actual talent tree as well. So I gotta ask, which will we end up with?
I also tested Virtuous Command and it does indeed still require melee range. So for BoJ or FV to benefit from it, need to walk into melee range. Fiiiiix.
And then out of curiosity I tested Turn Evil for like 5 min in Duskwood against level 30 mobs. “Lesser creatures have a chance to be destroyed” — this never happened.
Good point. The way our mastery was changed and works today is very similar to the suggestion I made for Templar’s Vindication. If our generators have to be super weak so that all the damage can be backloaded into TV, then we should at laest see that damage in one big number. It’s such a missed opportunity otherwise. It’s like what was the point.
2 Likes
Aye just another thing that makes Seal of the Templar even more useless than it currently is.
So glad I’m not playing DF at this stage.
Not that Turn Evil will ever be taken in DF with the current talent system, but why isn’t Holy Wrath even in the tree at all? And more importantly why isn’t it combined into the Turn Evil talent to make it more appealing?
They could just name it to do with weapons against the undead, and like the aura talents you get both abilities for 1 talent point.
2 Likes
Can anyone confirm if divine protection is a 1 minute or 2 minute cd? The wowhead talent calculator tooltip has it showing as 1 minute but if on beta its 2 minutes for hpal (up from current 1 minute in sl) i’m going to be upset
It feels fun on the surface, but without procs you’re bottom of the barrel and with proc spam you’re topping meters. Absolutely zero skill indication
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At least it’s nice to know people share my feelings on it. All my friends tell me to just reroll but can’t seem to grasp I’ve played this class for 18 Fuggin years for a reason. From reck bombs to wrath blasting to this current garbage iteration I’ve always love the concept of a paladin
10 Likes
Honestly, I like that there has been SOME attempt to spruce up Turn Evil, it’s one of the few class flavor spells we have left in our repertoire. It’s not supposed to be up to us to use it or not, it’s supposed to be up to the content creators to make it useful, in at least a third of the game world. That’s just what a good DM would do.
That said, I really, REALLY like the idea you’ve had for Turn Evil to be combined with Holy Wrath, that would be amazingly cool. Turn Evil should definitely be a baseline spell, but if there was a Talent to give it the Holy Wrath effect, I’d personally pick it just for cool factor, every time.
And thank you Churchmouse for testing out Turn Evil for us, I’ve been wondering what the proc would be on it. Is there a main Beta thread for DF? I’m pretty certain you’ve been sending nonstop updates to them on Paladins, but when you have the chance, can you add in that you’d like for the proc chance for Turn Evil tuned up much higher? And could you possibly drop Haavi’s idea to combine it with Holy Wrath?
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I think it was supposed to be 1 min but beta and PTR still only show 2 min. I would say that based on how druid and priest were treated, paladin is overdue for big changes to their class and prot/ret trees. I think there’s hope
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With the data mined new talents maybe, hopefully.
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Inb4 we get Reckoning back as ret (the PvP talent) and Legion Greater Blessing of Might.
Oh my, I should stop giving them ideas. xD
But you are right, things like that get me hopeful again for some big changes while simultaneously I hate the devs for being radio silent. When would be a better opportunity to announce something…anything than now?
Also: I started levelling a ret paladin in WotLK classic (started playing in Cata) and have to say while (at Level 34) the spec is an auto attack snooze fest what I’d like to see come back is the SOUND EFFECT (not the visual) of Judgment with the glyph that gives 8% mana back on use. Now that’s what I call ooomph. Not that janky “clank” sound we have nowadays.
2 Likes