Where? Is taking holy fire/chastise considered ‘taking DPS’ now? They’re pretty important to our kit in general.
You’re right, without tier, chastise doesn’t actually count toward salv resets. Still counts for Resonant though - so… still is an hps increase to cast.
There’s no borrowed power. What you see is what you get from these talent trees. The only thing that would make PoH worth using in a world with FC is a huge buff to PoH spellpower.
Assuming that balance mostly stays the same, right now we’re looking at focusing more on holy word resets (we can talent into current HA/resonant) and more renew use.
Currently just that renew talent + renewed faith puts a renew cast up to 180%ish sp for 1.8% mana. That’s not bad at all. Add in renewed faith increasing everything else you do too, and PoM leaving renew fairly cheaply, while still being able to grab mindbender and enlightenment. Bender is pretty significant mana increase in raids. And cosmic ripple is giving mana too, now and it doesn’t seem very prohibitive.
Along with that, we’ve got LoTN + Holy Oration very easily in our holy tree as well without losing access to Salv/Apoth like we did before, and rune of mending/healing can be taken with them.
I feel like all of it is adding to fairly quick holy words with PoM/CoH on CD and some renew/fh use for SoL procs. Seems better than any PoH spam, even with prayer circle.
I think that depends on which kind of content someone’s doing and what the needs of the group are. If these spells were generally so important they should’ve been baseline. I personally would rather not take them to get something like Guardian Spirit. I would want to skill those to get some further DPS enhancements.
That’s what I was talking about when I said that I would want to see a restructured tree with the possibility of shaping the priest in 3 distinct ways. Fast Singletarget/Cleave, Heavy AoE or DPS.
Which would be totally fine in my opinion. I’ve been saying that for such a long time that PoH is in need of buffs, same with the initial healing from spells aside from Echo of Light.
would be cool if voidform was just folded into STM, make it like a 3-5 min CD reduced by how long you can keep it up via hungering void and how many apparition procs you set off. i was hoping for something akin to the old mage prismatic focus, where we put down a black hole and just single target nuke it to radiate damage and recast to burst aoe, or just more love for psychic link in general. PI does feel like its holding the spec back creatively a bit.
Lightwell should branch off Cosmic Ripple, Divine Words should take its place with Holy Word: Life taking its place. They can think of something better as the far left ability for the general priest tree. Hell, they can even throw Lightwell right there since it branching off the HoT empowerment area makes more sense anyways.
Lightwell being the last talent option for the Holy Tree after empowering your Holy Words + AoE Heals comes outta left field.
There are no baseline spec-specific spells anymore. Even penance and devouring plague are on the talent tree now. Along with all the holy words.
The first tier of pretty much every class tree is just unlocking the spec specifics. It’s intentionally built that way. It’s also why you end up taking most of the first tier before you can even progress. Like it or hate it, that’s a theme across all the talent trees so far.
Something that I would’ve loved to see in the Discipline talent tree would’ve been the addition of a more offensive Penance, but that could be the case with Dark Reprimand. (unless it just makes Penance deal Shadow damage instead of Holy which will be underwhelming)
Maybe along the lines of (which is currently a cosmetic glyph):
Dark Absolution - Your Penance leans more towards Shadow, increasing the damage of Penance by 100% but reducing the healing by 50%.
Basically a reverse of its current values, having it deal more damage but less healing instead of more healing and less damage.
They currently have Psychic Voice in each spec tree. Now I assume they did this because they don’t want shadow to have both a reduced CD on psychic scream and mind bomb but still, it comes off as lazy and causing bloat.
Disc and Holy get purify, shadow does not because reasons???
I love how we got at least 1 class tree talent that affects purify yet shadow is left out from that spell usage.
Not sure if these examples fit into your statement, but I wanted to highlight the apparent obscurity in some of these decisions on what spell is classified as a class or spec lol.
Also, desperate prayer is a class spell… yet prayer of healing is not.
It would be nice to have the option to in a pinch heal up my group after let’s say we killed everything and I can’t leech up our hp anymore.
I want to be a priest again in all specs. Not sidelined as a old god cultist in shadows case lol.
Penance gets absolutely huge in the new tree with harsh discipline. It’s pretty much the penitent one, except it’s going to proc a completely ridiculous amount of times, since 100 atones is nothing. Add in schism/dark reprimand and it’s even crazier. 7 bolt penances with +120% damage increase is uh… pretty nuts. It consistently deals significantly more damage than mindgames.
Yeah, just because the spec specific things are all in t1 of every class tree does not mean that the old utility shared talents aren’t there also. Point still stands that literally every class tree has all the spec specific spells you’d never skip in T1 of their spec tree.
Purify’s going to baseline. If you look at the talent in Disc it says that it will be baseline and something else will be there later.
All maximum level Priests will have access to these abilities. They are earned through leveling and do not require you to spend talent points to have them.
Smite: Smites an enemy for Holy damage. Shadow Word: Pain: A word of darkness that causes a small amount of Shadow damage instantly and additional damage over 12 seconds. Resurrection: Brings a dead ally back to life with 35% health and mana. Cannot be cat when in combat. Power Word: Shield: Shields an ally for 15 seconds, absorbing damage. You cannot shield the target again for 7.5 seconds. Power Word: Fortitude: Infuses the target with vitality, increasing their Stamina by 5% for 1 hour. If the target is in your party or raid, all party and raid members will be affected. Mind Vision: Allow the caster to see through the target’s eyes for 1 minute. Will not work if the target is in another instance or another continent. Mind Soothe: Soothes the target, reducing the range at which it will attack you by 10 yards. Only affects Humanoid and Dragonkin targets. Does not cause threat. Lasts 20 seconds. Mind Blast: Blasts the target’s mind for Shadow damage. Levitate: Levitates a party or raid member for 10 min, floating a few feet above the ground, granting slow fall, and allowing travel over water. Flash Heal: A fast spell that heals an ally. Fade: Fade out, removing all your threat and reducing enemies’ attack range against you for 10 sec. Desperate Prayer: Increases maximum health by 25% for 10 sec, and instantly heals you for that amount. Psychic Scream: Lets out a psychic scream, causing 5 enemies within 8 yards to flee, disorienting them for 8 sec. Damage may interrupt the effect. Dispel Magic: Dispels Magic on the enemy target, removing 1 beneficial Magic effect. Focused Will: Melee attacks against you cause you to gain Focused Will, reducing damage you take by 15% for 8 sec.
Nothing about Purify being baseline.
Discipline Priest Baseline Abilities
Purify: Dispels harmful effects on the target, removing all Magic effects. Combines with Purify Disease if known.
Developer Note: Purify is currently a talent on the Discipline tree, but will be moved to be a baseline Discipline ability at a later time. A talent will be moved to its current position to keep the overall tree structure intact.
Keyword is baseline “Discipline”
Shadow is left out.
That’s because Shadow has never had the ability to dispel Magic outside of Mass Dispel. Shadow has only had the ability to dispel disease, and Dispel Disease is a Class Talent.
Publik, you’ve mentioned that any buff to Mind Flay is essentially a nerf to Void Torrent, which makes sense. To eliminate that unnecessary tradeoff, it seems to make sense that any talent that buffs or is activated from Mind Flay should also buff or be activated by Void Torrent. For example:
Monomania could also have Void Torrent increase dot periodic rate. If Abyssal Knowledge is taken, Void Torrent could also increase dot crit chance. If Rot and Wither is taken, Void Torrent could also extend dots.
Void Torrent could be good, but it seems to lack the support in the spec’s design to make it so because the overall design tendency is to add a lot of additional procs and abilities that compete with it.
Most of the games history, Shadow CAN dispel magic.
Dispel Magic used to work for both Offense and Defense magic buff/debuff dispelling that all priests had… in fact they were the only class capable of this on Horde side in Classic.
For some reason blizzard ripped this tool away (among others) and Shadow has suffered since.
It should be baseline for all priests.
Edit:
The clarify, Priests were the ONLY class in the game to have both Offensive and Defensive Magic dispelling and actually think they still are.
Paladins has Defensive Dispel Magic in the Ability “Cleanse”
Shamans has Offense Dispel Magic in the ability “Purge”
Then you had Warlocks that could do both as well but only with a Fel Hunter Pet out.
I just think that any priest should have access to all magic dispelling situations. It should be a REASON to bring a priest, the master of the Magic Dispel. We all have Mass Dispel after all, it only makes sense.
I would challenge anyone to make a mechanical argument why Shadow is not to have access to an instant cast defensive dispel ability.
We already got our damage reduction removed (Shadowform) and we cant kite, cant chain CC and pop defensives while still able to take an action.
Lets at least have the capability to dispel ourselves and our allies.
Definitely would be better than what we have now, but Void Torrent is just one example, any other ability in our kit has the same problem. Because of this attacking the issue at its core would be cleaner.
Problem is Void Torrent’s place was with Legion’s spriest design, they gutted the Legion design for some WotLK nostalgia rework, but didn’t retool Void Torrent to be fit for purpose.
From what I remember, yes, we did have access to a Dispel Magic, as did other classes. At some point though, Blizzard decided to make Dispel Magic available to only healers, and not to any DPS.
I disagree with this, no DPS should be able to Dispel Magic. Shadow Priests already have this in the form of Mass Dispel.
I know you’re probably a PvE’er who doesn’t care about anything PvP related, but it’d be broken having a DPS be able to dispel magic because of the many forms of magic CC. That’s my argument.
At most, DPS specs currently can only dispel curses and poisons, not magic. Shadow Priests can dispel disease if talented into it with this new talent tree, as well as with Mass Dispel if they choose. (that’s already a good reason to bring Shadow Priests, they can dispel magic with Mass Dispel)
Do I look like I am a primary PvEer? There is a reason I sport around my Warlords transmog. Because you are unable to unless you achieved the ranks to do so.
I would agree that in its old form when you can cast it without a cooldown then it became a massive game changer and I abused the crap out of it. Now don’t get me wrong, I would love that back immediately lol. However, I do understand how crazy that is against “some” classes. But we can still have the updated version where there is a short cooldown applied to it so you can no longer spam it.
You claim it would be broken in PvP. I would say it puts us on an even playing field. So WHY would it be broken? What actual specific scenario can you share that can illustrate this?
Also, I was not wrong in my earlier statement. You said we NEVER had it. That was just purely false. We did, it got changed true. But I want to know specially WHY it got changed because as an advid PvPer on multiple classes, I never saw a problem with a Shadow Priest having a defensive dispel regardless the side I was on with facing them or being one.
I mean, sure, I can explain, but there really is no reason for me to because anyone who does arena above 1400 rating can tell you that it’s because of the many forms of magic CC.
It doesn’t matter if it has the small, 6-10 second cooldown on it. It’s still really busted. The diminishing return window resets after… 18 seconds? You dispel one full CC, can mass dispel another CC, and at that point the cc is really short on whoever it was being cast on. Mage polymorphs, warlock fear, paladin incap and stun, priest fear, monk sleep, hunter freezing trap, etc. So many forms of magic CC that can be dispelled right there. And you’re saying just because it’ll have a small cooldown, because it can’t be spammed, it’s not busted?
Take your Mass Dispel and leave it at that. Shadow Priests already have that going for them, thats way more than any other DPS can do already.
Yeah, I did say “never”, poor wording on my part because I know we had it at one point. It was changed for good reason though, and I agree with Blizzard’s reasoning behind it. Healers should be the only one to dispel magic, sorry.