No vault, no bonus rolls, old JP/VP vendors returned, drop rates upped to compensate.
I’d also like to see more of the pvp set scaling (not the upgrades) used to keep M+ and raids from influencing each other and pvp, but that’s just wishful thinking.
x2.
I would prefer a deterministic way to get any piece and then level up via valor and your score, then M+ will be mantained by the players that like that gameplay mechanic instead of forcing players to do as much runs as possible for all the RNG possible drops with 10 runs per week.
It feels like they don’t trust that their gameplay will continue after the goal is achieved by players.
It does solve the problem of repeatable content.
Can’t have 15’s droping 252 gear end of run without lockouts. That would never fly.
I think the big issue with the SL version over the BfA version is it stratifies the player base because if you only have so much time to play in a week the vault’s not going to reward you for doing lower keys with friends.
Great Vault
Just because it solves a problem with the current system, which is problematic on its own, to remove the vault the entire loot system must be changed.
the truth is that Bellular’s video about it is interesting.
I realized the mistake before even hitting post, but I kept it in because I still think the metaphor is accurate. The lack of loot, the lack of food, it all works.
I don’t like the great vault. I think gear progression is too slow. I assumed everyone else did, though. I have mentioned that I think loot is too slow on this forum before and been crucified for it.
The Great Vault works wonders when it was initially utilized as a treasure box that gave bonus loot. However with the nerfs it feels like it could be utilized as something mandatory and leaving it up to a large portion of RNG & time investment than what it once was.
Im dying 
The great vault is good but it make gearing so boring , if you don’t mythic raid and only M+ , you have to wait weekly piece
The vault would be great if it was smarter.
So less gear? you want to be able to go weeks without potentially getting anything, just want to make sure I’m understanding this correctly.
What we normally get during the week is incredibly low comparatively though on top of being based on RNG, and the vault offers us one(1), extra choice a week, at again, RNG.
The system would be far better off having us work towards rewards we can choose to claim like the Bellular video says, rather than leaving our rewards to RNG with only 1 option, people are tired of depending on the will of the gods for a good reward, just let us work towards it.
This is why you see “The Great vault sucks, I get nothing good or duplicates all the time” posts on the forums. It’s just not a good system of rewards and more importantly, a system to incentivize players to keep playing.
This, minus the score, just have difficult content drop valor period and have a vendor where we can buy items from the content we’re doing, no need to lock it behind a score which hard-stops most casual players progression, or if you need a score then have the higher your score the more valor you get, but even if you can’t get a high score, still give valor points for the content we do so we can actually feel like we’re working towards something even if we’re not rewarded in the actual content.
The vault is functional as an insurance policy of one more drop at weeks end. And it’s improved from BFA where you would get enough boots or pants to fill up your entire bank. They put in some english to make drops more productive. It’s subtle, but clearly they’ve done something to stop getting boots ten times in a row. Sometimes it works, sometimes not, but at least it’s not the same slot every time now. (random wasn’t random in BFA vault)
However, the run ten dungeons or kill ten raid bosses to get more options has not worked. We’ve paid for this by getting less loot on kill. And what we’ve gotten isn’t more, it’s the illusion of more loot. You can only make one choice and the cost is too high.
Running raids before, you could pop in with a char you are building and gear up. You could try out something new. The current scheme is just another block, as well as alt-block.
Now with forced personal loot combined with the hunter legendary, it’s mail mail mail drops. Every boss dropped mail, sometimes only mail. We even saw a hunter weapon, weapon drops are so rare. And before that we’ve been swimming in leather drops because of DH added to the mix of other heavily played leather classes.
It’s a complex compounding of effects that are screwing things up. ML plays a part. Blizzard’s nonstop pushing of 5s content is part of the problem.
… they need good economists who truly understand the game. That’s the only discipline I know of that their business is exactly this. How systems affect behavior and outcomes. Not lawyers, not sociologists, or statisticians or mathematicians or anything else.
They need to hire economists, good serious ones. Preferably ones that already have history with mmo. Multiple mmo, even better.
EDIT: or maybe zero mmo experience, fresh perspectives sometimes help
equipping doesn’t have to be fun, the content you make to equip yourself should be, and since all loot is RNG you can’t enjoy the content as you inevitably reach a point where you burn yourself out of it for repeating it countless times.
WoW team should have the same approach of OW, MOBAS, other genres, As MMORPG i know the reward is important but the gameplay it’s more important.
I feel they are afraid of the replayability once a player has everything but i just keep noticing that the high pvp content creators just want fun balance gameplay, that’s why they asked for pvp vendor back because pvp felt like pve progress with so much RNG.
Same will happend with M+, player will continue after BIS, just pushing their limits.
I think they could come up with better gearing systems.
Too much of the game runs like a Casino and relies on gambling addiction mechanics, and this is one of them. Also too many of the players have gotten hooked on these gambling addiction mechanics and knee-jerk defend them because it feeds into their “fix”.
So valor points like they used to be back in the day where we save up and buy a piece from a vendor
I love the vault, and I would rather have it than have statistically better drop rates.
It’s a gauranteed drop. It’s not just bad luck protection, it has it’s own extra bad luck protection baked in via the ability to unlock multiple options.
It is something to look forward to on Tuesdays.
It gives you higher gear than you would have attained through normal drops/upgrades, at least in the cast of M+.
It’s like the token vs tier piece debate. I’d rather have tokens that can be traded between raiders so something doesn’t go to waste, rather than have a statistically better drop rate of raw items that might be wasted.
I can’t speak for “people” but the game being based around a higher ilvl random weekly chest reward is one reason I’m not participating in much of the group content. It feels a lot like the mission table boxes in WoD that undermined the progression of the content itself.
I think the best drops should always come from within the content. The mission table/vault design should’ve been a supplementary bonus at best. It still feels worse than badges.
Exactly.
All the vault does is create frustration but also feeds to addiction of “maybe next week, maybe next week.”
All the while you wait for all those weeks to come, you’re subbed the entire time.