Beledar and the Sacred Flame. Scarlet 2.0?

they aren’t heretical zealots who will over push their beliefs.

Problem though is Scarlet rpers will lean so hard on this to promote their racism.

1 Like

Did you just skip the story entirely?

The Hallowfall Arathi are a small subset of the larger Arathi Empire and there was no shortage of evidence supporting the larger Empire being particularly zealous, though I would argue their zeal is directed more towards supporting their Emperor and the Empire’s agenda rather than the Holy Light.

5 Likes

I think this is about what could be, not just what has happened thus far. If you recall the zealous nature of Xe’ra before Illidan put her down, and the Lightbound of the Alternate Universe. Both outcomes from this unknown “empire” are a possibility.

They may just as blind as Turalyon was before Illidan brought him to his senses, and who knows what that could entail.

We’ve seen every force related to darkness and the void being corrupt, vile, manipulative, and down right aggressive. Twilights Hammer, The Shadow Council, and many others.

Now we just need the Lights version of this same path. Pride, arrogance, justice through selection or racial discrimination. This empire could be the mirror image of the same groups but on the side of the Light.

And that makes them just as dangerous. We can only hope they don’t become anything like the scarlets but it is an eventuality we need to be prepared for.

To add to this, just imagine how many members of the Empire have already infiltrated the alliance and walk among us.

Oh, I don’t discount the possibilities present. There are a lot of unknown factors still to be discovered (if they ever become relevant).

I was directing my response more towards those who have said the Arathi do not display outward signs of zealotry, which I think is a wildly inaccurate interpretation of what has been shown thus far. Hallowfall is an exception to what may be a much different rule; one that will likely share some similarities to the Scarlet Crusade, albeit without the corrupting influence of a Dreadlord destroying it from within.

3 Likes

Gonna second this and expand it to the Syndicate and Defias Brotherhood to different degrees.

In part, of course, early Blizzard had no indication of how big WoW was going to take off and so had no real follow up or long term road map in relation to Classic. So our introduction to the Crusade, finding them increasingly paranoid, xenophobic, and insular (not to mention the later comics that doubled down for the worse on this), and then storming all their holdings (then we get Wrath/Scarlet Onslaught), was more or less suppose to be the last of it. They Syndicate and Defias get the same treatment.

They simply didn’t have longevity or reoccurring enemies in mind, not really at least, which brings us to now. Of course the opportunity exists to give proper story to bring all three back in a more grounded and meaningful way, unlike how we see the Scarlets just pop up in the Forsaken and Gilnean quests out of nowhere. They can show how hardship and alienation leads to these cells continuously growing and reforming, unable to eradicate them fully without tackling the base issues. To use them as the metaphors they very well can be/are.

Right now in particular is so ripe for it too. The Forsaken are still rebuilding and could hardly repel an attack on the Undercity by the Crusade recently. Alterac has been empty for who knows how long. Arathi was just a warzone with plenty of Syndicate activity and I wouldnt call any of that stable in an immediate post war period. Stormwind was buckling at the knees at the end of BFA and Defias got as far as they did. The whole Eastern Kingdoms is unstable which is perfect for these smaller, grounded, regional enemies.

6 Likes

I think a big reason you dont see these smaller, more grounded enemy factions outside of very specific quest lines is the game’s present scope. At this point, the player characters have fought against cosmic entities and Death itself.

Blizzard is certainly trying to draw down the scope a bit and ground the narrative more than they have in years, but even with Dragonflight we saw a lot of complaints regarding the narrative feeling boring or irrelevant. You can blame some of that on the quality of writing, but you can also blame the fact that players have come to expect bigger than life stakes.

5 Likes

I mean, others can have wrong opinions :sweat_smile:

To the point though, and as you alluded to, Blizz isnt writing these smaller compelling stories, or at least on a wider scale. However, we’ve also seen a lot more of these smaller, intimate, grounded quests have been some of the community’s most fondly remembered/experienced. Poor Korgan and Duroz come to mind most recently and both are very down to earth, very humanizing, very sad, quests. Part of the reason why the Scarlets, Defias, etc are remembered so well or fondly as factions/enemies, is because they’re grounded, they feel real. I can’t say, and maybe I am just in a different subset of player/fan, anyone will ever really remember the Mawsworn or even Burning Legion as such a compelling faction/enemy because there isnt that connection there. The Burning Legion is fun to smack around, but they’re not really a compelling enemy on a personal level in a lot of cases.

We do see a lot more grounded quests, however, in TWW, especially in Hallowfall and so far I’ve seen near nothing but positive feedback for them. So to me that shows there certainly is an appetite for these more grounded quests.

5 Likes

I agree. TWW has been a blessing when it comes to diving into smaller scale, more personal quest lines.

Now, will we see a faction like the Scarlet Crusade ever serve as a mainline antagonist group in the future? Hard to say. The Arathi Empire certainly has the potential to prove a compelling yet grounded antagonist.

Only time will tell.

As for the Scarlet Crusade, Defias, and so on? As legitimate factions within the game’s narrative, I believe they are probably obsolete until such time they are ushered out for incredibly specific side quests. You can never truly kill an ideology, however, so I personally believe they will always have viability within roleplay circles.

4 Likes

My big hope (cope?) is for a solid Cata level world revamp again where we can re-introduce these smaller, more grounded, narratives and enemies again. Let the old world feel lived in again and not so much in perpetual world ending crisis.

3 Likes

Gotta wait for them to revamp TBC content. Ever notice how Silvermoon literally looks like a shoe box city? The scar is the shoe divider.

Imagine if they made Silvermoon a proper city for a proper threat or invasion. If you think back to LK and every content since they almost half-baked Silvermoon without the extended effort that any other city would have. Even Shattrath and Exodar have some dimension than just really really talk like Lord Farqaads castle in Shrek “You think maybe their overcompensating for something.”

Silvermoon is the Old Stormwind concept still just with gold trim to make it look rich.

Think how even Quel’danas would appear with more structured dimension and you could visit the Sunwell without the raid.

If it were me, I would take inspiration from Guild Wars 2 and introduce extremist splinter factions to both the Horde and Alliance who are hellbent on reigniting the faction war. Terrorism, dissent, internal strife. These smaller scale antagonists could be very compelling just like the Separatists and Flame Legion factions were when going through the Ascalon/Charr regions of GW2.

The faction war is behind us, but that doesn’t mean there can’t be strife. Heck, you even see how the Ascalonians and Charr bicker and grow to develop a grudging respect for each other throughout the course of their zones’ narratives. It is something we have seen very little in WoW due to the focus on a ‘big bad.’

3 Likes

As it seems relevant here as well. I’m just going to copy what I posted on the story form:

Now adding on to that it is very clear that the Arathi empire is being built up to be the next Big Bad, and I am fully expecting to witness blizzards tasteless comments on monarchy and empires in fantasy with equally tactless storytelling on why the Arathi would be xenophobic without addressing the cause outside of blind faith and bigotry.

What I am more keen to focus on is the sacred flame as a concept itself, in specifically how it ties to elven society. So far the Hallowfall campaign has been absolutely delightful in both worldbuilding and showing the threat of Xala’tath, and Faerin is a magnificent and likeable character who i hope maintains a solid friendship with Anduin without shipping.

The Arathi are genuinely better written than I expected them to be. And I am all here for it.

Just uh.

Please keep us out of the storyline. I’m still recovering from the graverobbing and full frontal lobotomy of my favorite faction.

In fact please do not bring us up again until we have a dedicated writer who has an appreciation for both the scarlet crusade and the forsaken both and would like to romanticize that conflict to be about solving Lordaerons identity crisis.

3 Likes

Couldn’t have said it better myself. I was pleasantly surprised with how they handled the Arathi so far, and it seems on the surface at least that they learned from how they did the Scarlet Crusade dirty with every subsequent iteration they had them in. I went into War Within expecting to be disappointed but was pleasantly surprised at the quality of writing and overall narrative. It’s nothing groundbreaking or anything but it doesn’t seem like it’s trying too hard and delivers a solid story without leaning too heavily into tired tropes (yes some do exist but come on it’s WoW).

2 Likes

I have noticed that a number of players have began to wear the Hallowfall Arathi Lamplighter gear sets. Paladins and priests.

Its almost in a sense a remade version of the scarlet attire but for a new force.

Red, white and gold colors.
Flame emblem.
Giant flaming sword or staff.

All we need now is a devout, obsessive calling to the Light and a crusade or other goal.

1 Like

Every one seems to forget the comments towards Anduin claiming that the Empire would not be pleased with the other races that he associates with. Yes, the ones in Hallowfall are more friendlier due to their isolation, but the mainland empire is very xenophobic to non-humans and non-light worshipers.

2 Likes

The Arathi were there were already on the way TO begin a crusade (Renilash) before the storm/getting ported.

2 Likes

Said comment is specifically made in reference to Alleria, void elves, shadow priests, warlocks, demon hunters, death knights and Forsaken.
https://i.imgur.com/nNjSfco.png
Those races and classes are not entirely accepted within the wider Alliance and Horde either.

We know nothing of the mainland empire beyond what the Hallowfall Arathi tell us and it’s not exactly depicting an image of xenophobia, especially to the point of human supremacy, as the Arathi themselves say they are simply Arathi instead of elven, half-elven or human.

1 Like

Except that very image you linked says that they say that the mainland Empire wouldn’t take well to the variety of peoples and then if you’re one of the races/classes you’ve mentioned Faerin says them particularly.

That’s the exact opposite of saying they’d only have issues with those races/classes, it’s saying they’d both have issues in general and also particularly with said races/classes.

You’re right that there’s no example of anti-human xenophobia though. The Arathi are pretty clearly shown to not care for race, just their faith/culture.

3 Likes

The variety of peoples being in reference to Alleria, as Faerion mentions explicitly that it is the company Anduin keeps that the Empire would take issue with - of Anduin’s company she has only met Alleria, a void elf, and the player character who can be just about any thing but only those races/classes get called out.

1 Like

I don’t think we know enough about the mainland Arathi Empire yet to make an accurate call. We know they certainly possess some level of xenophobia, but we don’t know how deep it runs or how severely they treat outsiders.

I doubt they’re as bad as the Scarlet Crusade, however.