Bear Tanks in BWL

WoW Classic WoW Classic General Discussion
22

I’m genuinely curious about what a Fury/Prot Warrior (I’m assuming who is dual-wielding) brings to the table that a Bear can’t do even better.

-Mitigation: For the reasons you list later in your post, a Bear will be more durable than DW Fury/Prot.

-Threat: Nothing in the game can even approach Bear threat, even DW Fury/Prot. Take a look at the log I posted in the OP. Granted, the other Warriors are full Prot, but there’s no way a Fury/Prot is going to close that threat gap. Not even close.

So I’m genuinely curious about this ranking.

23

Shield wall and Last stand to start with. Probably also the amount of magic damage being consistently tossed out.

And on Nef, the druid class call killing your tank more than the warrior one will.

24

A bear gearing for threat would still only do half the threat of a fury/prot warrior played correctly.

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25

Looking at your log, any half decent fury prot warrior would destroy you on threat.

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26

anyone got a working in classic macro for using stuff?

/cancelform
/use THING
/cast dire bear form

??? that work>? no GCD on it? or what

27

is it viable? sure… anything is viable for the most part

now if you had actually competent dps and not a bunch of trash players, you wouldn’t even come close to hold threat compared to a well put together and competent fury prot warrior.

good luck doing anything against competent warriors pulling 1500+ dps lol

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28

Where are you getting this interpretation? Because what I take away from this log is that I generated so much threat that I ended up getting hit by 7 of the 8 Knock Aways, meaning even after having my threat cut in half MULTIPLE times, I still had the highest threat.

Not trying to be combative, but I’d like to know what stats you’re looking at that suggest my threat was anything less than untouchable.

29

His top dd did 600 dps. He did less than 300 dps as a bear, and he thinks he can out threat any fury/prot warrior who would do 900-1000 dps on Vael vs his 300. Threat isn’t 100% tied to damage, but it’s close enough to get a good idea. Fury/prot warriors do over 2x the TPS as bears.

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30

I prefer healing a warrior. I can get outside the 5 second rule more often with them and make my mana stretch longer. Druids need constant maintenance.

I’m not snubbing my nose at ferals. I dont really care at the end of the day, but if you ask me to pick one or the other, it’s the Warrior.

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31

DPS, basically.

If threat isn’t a concern, then Fury/Prot is just generally better for tanking the fight. Your Feral can go Cat and do better DPS than the Fury/Prot could because the Fury/Prot needs to be getting hit to do decent damage.

Doesn’t really matter unless the tank is at risk of being globaled. For any decent tank, that doesn’t really happen. Hell, most Fury/Prot Warriors could dual-wield tank the majority of BWL without much risk.

Excess threat is totally wasted. You either hold aggro or you don’t. Unless the boss has some mechanic that specifically makes threat a relevant mechanic, Fury/Prot is capable of generating enough threat to hold aggro.

Look at our Vael kill:
https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/reports/N16wzqH29mWn83Va#fight=4&type=damage-done

Warriors really shouldn’t be using Shield Wall. They should be using Recklessness for more DPS and threat. Bears are better at taking magic damage due to their higher health pools.

Last Stand is nice, but it doesn’t heal the damage. You can predict damage to raise your HP pool so you don’t get globaled, though, which is nice.

Nefarian is definitely the only fight where the boss mechanic more or less forces you (randomly) to just not tank.

If the class call is a Druid class call, you’re probably dead (or at least you won’t be able to hold aggro just spamming Claw when you can’t even powershift for more energy).

Objectively incorrect.

Alright, Warlock. I said “Ask literally ANY healer…”

They really don’t. Their DTPS spikes are far smaller because the damage they take is consistent. You don’t have to constantly heal them. In fact, you can far more reliably NOT heal them because you know how much damage they’ll be taking.

By contrast, a Warrior can go extremely long periods of time without needing any healing, then take every hit several times in a row and drain all of your mana trying to keep them alive.

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32

You can plug your numbers into a TPS calculator to show how much threat you were doing.

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33

I play warrior, paladin, druid, and warlock in classic. This isn’t my only one. Though, my warrior is benched cause I dont have time to play it. Mostly just my druid and lock.

Which is my point. They’ll often go a decent chunk of time without needing more than my hots, which let’s me regen mana. And, I’m perfectly capable of dealing with any spikes using cooldowns, as is the warrior with their cooldowns. That’s exactly what cooldowns are for. This is more applicable to dungeons than raid. In dungeons I usually only have to drink a handful of times at most with a good war tank. In raid, there isn’t much noticeable difference from a healers perspective. They both get trucked and need constant healing.

Depends on the fight. I would not advocate for using recklessness on Broodlord, Firemaw, Chromag, or Nef. But that’s just me. Vael, and the other drakes, go for it. You could use it on Chromag early to get a lead if you wanted.

34

Druidchads rise up…

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35

Not sure what you think the word objective means. Look at warcraft logs. Bears do not do as much threat. If you are basing your assumption on Taladriel’s(spelling) flawed test, then that’s the issue.

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36

“Expressing or dealing with facts or conditions as perceived without distortion by personal feelings, prejudices, or interpretations”

In other words: truly.

No idea what that is.

You can literally just calculate the TPS possible, and Bear does more than Warrior. Our threat is entirely multiplicative; Warriors’ is largely additive via more Heroic Strikes.

Excluding some extreme examples such as an Eskhandar’s Right Claw (with proc) and Thunderfury on Vaelastrasz, Feral’s threat simply exceeds Fury/Prot’s. Our DPS doesn’t, which is perhaps what you’re getting confused about?

37

That’s what I’m talking about. I dont know where you get your information. Thunderfury isn’t even the best threat weapon on Vael for warriors. Alcor’s Sunrazor is. Turns out, if you use a really fast dagger, you can get more than 1 heroic strike a second. Also, no serious warrior uses the claw.

Warrior threat is multiplicative as well. Defensive stance and defiance. The more damage you do, the more threat. When your BT crits for 3.5k, that’s a lot of threat when adjusted by multiplicative threat modifiers. Even heroic strikes, which can crit for nearly 2k, the majority of the threat is the multiplicative portion, not the additive 145 threat.

The top threat in the world was 2k TPS by a warrior on Vael.
.

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38

It’s an interesting question whether MCP would have been nerfed in vanilla or not. The fact that we now know it won’t be is one of the cooler things about playing an old game under #nochanges.

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39

Surf your operating under a faulty premise. That threat percental modifiers on abilities are the same for both. In actuality two disparate models are used.

For Warriors, with Defiance, thats 130% base, 149.5% with talents, then static values that are modified by those percentages.

For Bears with talents that the same 130% base, 149.5% with talents, however Bear has additional percentals on Maul and Swipe of 175%. So Bear threat is 149.5% auto attack and 262% resultant threat.

Its this very reason Bear threat eventually scales beyond a Warriors threat, even with a Fury tanking build.

However I do agree with you that a well played Warrior, atm, can still out threat a Bear, but not by alot. However the caveat is that a Warrior makes major sacrifices to do so…ie sub 50 Def, far less EH, etc.

A Bear doing 300 DPS is 786 TPS…with FF use thats about 800 TPS.

With R 12/13 gear + BWL gear, a Bear can do about 400 DPS…with FF thats about 1070 TPS.

Bears exceed Fury threat in AQ 40. However Bears never have to make the level of sacrifices to achieve threat levels that Warriors have to.

By AQ 40 Bears make no sacrifice at all, tank as well as Warriors, and generate more threat.

Naxx doesn’t offer alot for Bears and as a result Warriors will take about 2% less damage overall, however Bears will never lose their EH and threat advantage.

The key is to use both classes together to swap as MT for content…they don’t compete, they compliment.

But yes right now a Fury can out TPS a Bear, skill and gear being equal…but not by much.

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40

Valarkin, I appreciate that you put a lot of numbers behind your arguments, and it definitely looks like a sound argument. Also, your argument about not having to make sacrifices is also 100% spot on for bears.

Keep in mind, however, that even a deep prot warrior can do 800 TPS on most fights (Vael excluded because with a 1.3 speed dagger, even a deep prot specced warrior can do nearly nearly 1400 TPS).

Fury/prot warriors were already exceeding 1k TPS in MC without a Thunderfury, which adds another 150 TPS by itself. They can do 2k TPS on Vael with a 1.3 speed dagger.

Again, I appreciate the tone and way you presented your argument, but I dont fully agree with the conclusion.

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41

classic.warcraftlogs. com/reports/P6CxpbgDHVG3Fwq1#fight=25&type=summary&source=28. Just swap crowd pummeler for weapon. Also, bears get 20% stamina from talents and a flat 1240 HP from dire bear form.

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