Bear Tanks in BWL

God I would do unspeakable things for windfury to count for feral druids.

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How on earth are you determining his stat-sheet crit rate without knowing which world buffs he still had? The DM buff is spell crit, not melee crit. An EH stacked Druid in full world buffs sits around 37.1%, but a full TPS stacked Druid can hit in excess of 48.6%.

I know that his parse crit rate is below his gear and buffs, I just don’t know how much.

Hitting 7.67% more often still places him below your guessed-at 9% crit loss… which makes this a below-average parse for his gear.

And again… the Warrior had a 13.85% miss chance average… while dual wielding, parsing significantly above what kind of expected miss rates you would see with the OH attacks, on top of the higher than normal critical strike RNG once Recklessness dropped.


Seriously, I’m not sure why you’re so hung up on him being in “cat” gear when we’re talking about comparing to Warriors using friggin DPS pieces across the board, that aren’t even Plate, while not even using a damned shield.

Seriously: Chrilton is using two pieces of leather for the +Daggers, the Savage Gladiator Chain, blue quality PvP gear, and dual-wielding Perdition’s Blade and Corehound Tooth.

You don’t have to put FR gear anywhere. I’m not arguing the logistics of limited gear for multiple purposes, I’m arguing that using logs of limited parsing of Druids to dismiss theoretical maximums against overwhelming parsing of Warriors as a point of comparison, especially when the former top parse is in expressly non-idealized TPS gear and the latter is significantly closer to completely idealized TPS gear, and the former parse underperforms in a slower kill while the latter parse overperforms in a faster kill.

Are… are you reading what I’m putting down? I never once said his gear was non-idealized because it was blue quality. In fact, the gear I specifically called out is mostly epic gear whose sole purpose in some cases is to improve EH and FR.

Again, EH doesn’t matter at all here. It doesn’t, not a wit, not when we’re considering full buffs and things like Flask of the Titans and Greater Stoneshield Potions have no negative conflict with TPS buffs/consumables. Again, a paper-thin geared Druid with the lowest imaginable EH stats can still achieve ~10k Health and ~8.5k Armor while still having ~135 FR. That’s more than sufficient to endure everything that Vael throws your way on a fight that lets Healers stand in one place and bomb you with healing.

For OT, Druids are fantastic for Hateful Strikes because we can easily hit really high EH levels at the beginning of Naxx while having a tremendous amount of padding left over. Hatefuls, unlike MS and Unbalancing Strike, cannot critically hit or crush, so the difference between Druid and Warrior TTL almost entirely disappears in that specific role.


hear me out on this one. just put a druid and a fury/prot warrior up against vael and have them go at the same time. whoever has threat > 50% of the time wins and is hands down the best TPS in the game.

(spoiler bear with 9% hit and MCP wins and expects healers to cover the gap in effective health pool)

That’s not why I’m saying it.

I was clearly showing that he chose an FR enhanced Cat DPS build so offset his loss of EH, which the FR helped accomplish. He offset physical mitigation with magical mitigation to gain the best TPS possible for his gear.

With a DFT added and those swaps made he would basically be in BiS FR Cat gear for that fight. His threat won’t really go anywhere after that unless he additionally drops the FR, which might be a problem for his raid structure.

I’m not aware of the comfort level of his healers with his EH already being that low, so I can’t really comment on that.

However I do know that in spite of you professing that Druids don’t need alot to tank Vael except “bomb healing”, that most druids stack alot more EH than he does…because he chose to maximize DPS and therefore TPS.

His gear is chosen for 1 purpose, to max DPS and TPS and offset loss of EH with magical mitigation.

For that purpose he is in nearly BiS.

Why would u count the only fight in the game where they have infinite rage?

And besides paladin has highest TPS with kings abuse

Until the +healing Diamond Flask snapshot method becomes mainstream:

terms and coniditons apply* needs 11x + of the same class, GL loot master.

ok, no vael, no infinite rage. warrior loses by default.

Many high end guilds are stacking between 10 and 15 Warriors in a raid…moreover Paladins don’t need 11+ to make them the highest TPS on fights in most guilds outside of Vael.

GBoK’s weakness is resultant DPS from the Paladin only being 150 DPS at best…not threat.

The problems are Paladins can’t taunt.
GBoK doesn’t show on a threat meter.

Which means you can’t ride a Warriors threat by 1% until tank swap and then take it with GBoK spam…because you can’t see Paladin threat levels on a meter.

Paladins with 7 Warriors generate very strong TPS…with 10+ they generate amazing TPS.

However at that point the extra TPS doesn’t mean anything…but the DPS actually does.

Let alone on fights where you have to tank swap.

Ayyy you got me.

But like I said later in the post, we’re not a hardcore guild (exceedingly average, in fact) and that was our second night in there, some of us for the first time ever, including myself as the raid leader. I’m happy with our progression, and we’ll have it full cleared in a week or two.

Any raid without 11 wars isn’t a real raid

Just telling you like it is, druids can raid and tank BWL but they are not anywhere close to warriors in terms of tanking.

There’s a reason there’s only 1 druid in the top 500 for tank damage, and that correlates directly with TPS.

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i cant understand why warriors 7,8,9,10, and 11 would all stay knowing they wont see any loot for 2months minimum. unless ofc they just dont care about loot then good for them.

Fasc, the 13% miss is actually higher than it should be.

When heroic strike is queued, the OH only has a 6% miss chance against a level 63 boss. A 6% hit capped warrior should never miss with OH as long as they HS every MH, which is the case on a fight like Vael. Even without Vael, with world buffs, you can expect 80% HS uptime, which would make the miss chance in the OH extremely low.

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Krackr, because there is barely any loot in BWL for warriors anyway other than boots. If they want gear upgrades, they need to PVP.

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Talking about tank DPS? Or tank damage taken?

We can debate this all day (and some people actually have been since I posted this this morning), but at the end of the day, we’re going to end up 8/8 soon and I’ll make Bear tanking shine.

The entire reason for this thread was to point out that Druids aren’t ticking RNG time bombs of getting crit/crushed/splat like these ultra sweaty mathematician simlords like to pretend. In the world where 99% of players live, Bears are absolutely fine, and a good Bear tank (just like a good Warrior tank) will absolutely shine in BWL.

In the simulated world the people in this thread live in, it’s only 99% optimal, not 100% optimal, and that’s ok. I’ll take that 99% straight to KTs face and I encourage others to do the same.

EDIT: You’re talking about tank DPS. Which if you read an excellent mathematician’s post above, Bears get more threat out of their DPS than Warriors because of the way Heroic Strike and Maul work. HS is mostly additive threat (Multiplied by Dstance and talents), where Maul is multiplicative threat (multiplied even further by Bear form and talents). A 1k crit Maul generates more threat than a 1.5k crit HS, roughly speaking. Need the assistance of a mathematician on this one, but you get the point. Bears convert damage to threat at a much higher rate than Warriors.

Hs is not mostly additive. Stop saying that.

The average HS hits for 750. Modified by defensive stance, it does over 1000 threat from damage alone. The additive portion is just an additional 145 threat. A small part of HS is additive.

It also has a few other benefits it turns a white hit into a special attack, which changes the hit table. It also can’t glance. It also removes the DW miss penalty on your OH.

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A 1k Maul generates more threat than a 1k HS. Of course the point is that Bears being lower on overall tank DPS logs doesn’t correlate to lower threat because Bears and Warriors convert damage to threat at different rates.


Your point?

Warriors can do more Hs than you can do mauls. We also have BT, which does more threat. Then revenge, sunder fillers.

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The only point I was trying to make is to what the guy above me said earlier about 1 Bear tank being in the top 500 of tank damage, and that it correlated with Bears generating less threat. My point was simply that you can’t make that correlation because Bears and Warriors convert damage to threat at different rates.

Oh, well that is a true statement.

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