So bear is getting another nerf.
Nerf to thorns of iron. Reduced dmg past 4 applications. Not a massive nerf but just why?
That thing wasnt doing crazy dmg whatsoever.
Most people dont even take it.
So very very strange.
So bear is getting another nerf.
Whoever is in charge of Druid class design and specifically Guardian shouldn’t be in that role. Took the literal worst tank of all 6 specs and nerfed the singular aspect of the spec that had any merit
It was fun to pull the whole tree room and spam IF for damage keeping up with dps. Devs need to prune trees and easy fix us, revert our mastery nerfs.
yeah it’s not looking too good…hang in there fellow druids
Sadly letting my sub lapse until 10.1
Hopefully they can figure it out by then
You know what?
I get about 24k single target with thorns of iron.
I get about 24k single target without thorns of iron too.
Who is this nerf for? Are people getting destroyed by this in PVP or something?
Bro they should nerf druid even more and buff prot palli i cant even tank +10 without dying im struggling
True, they are going to give us a minor version of atwf on ptr. But it should be like 5 or 10% per SoR, 2% is too little. Normally, Bears/paladins spend around 3 gcds to generate 1 iron fur/SoR, 5 IF = 1 Awtf proc for a full heal to party, but 5 SoRs = 10% hp heal.
Nerf bears and buff paladin.
I think they changed it to 3%
As long as this nerf allows the un-nerfs to Thrashspam Bearzerk, I’d be fine with it. But how the spec was rigged together after 10.0.5 was simply not fun–no single talent will change that.
Doesn’t Raze do substantially more damage than pressing Iron fur if you have Thorns if iron?
Not to mention the absorb provides more protection than the increased armor.
How do you figure? Every Ironfur press is roughly a 10-12% time to live extension. [And, as a sleeping effect, provides a guaranteed 7 second window of tankbuster protection. I’m not sure if these are still coded in game but they exist in content such as WoD Timewalking.]
It makes sense to prioritize TnC procs with Raze, but in any content where incoming post-mitigation physical damage is more than 5% attack power per second, Ironfur should be better, by the numbers.
wow thank god i gave up on bear , seems like blizzard hates us.
I dunno if hate is the right word. There’s certainly some level of apathy towards making the spec competitive in any sense of the word, but I suspect that’s because they don’t want to change how it plays and they’d have to do that to make it competitive.
Right now, it’s training-wheels easy to play, and so they gave it a tax on power to keep it from being the goto tank in every scenario. If it was within 25% of warriors’ power, people would probably not play anything else below 20.
It’s bad design. They know it. So either there’s a ground-up rework coming or they’re letting it atrophy like WoD demo lock.
Keyword being Physical Damage. There is so much magic damage going around in DF.
In my experience, the Raze mitigation trumps IR by a massive amount especially in big add pulls and gives a more stability. you can always switch what you spend your rage for if you specifically need IF and you have no other CD up. But trust me, Ursoc’s Fury mitigation with Raze/Maul is much more efficient overall. For an Example, I had messed up my CDs and didn’t have anything up for H Kurog Strikes but with Ursoc, I didn’t even feel it. Had like 1 IF stack and about 60k on Ursoc.
Bear still stinks, though. Definitely need more meat to just soak attacks and some level of magic defense, either in the form of off-GCD active mitigation (so I can just macro it to IF or passive magic mitigation.
Bear is right now a crappy copy of Prot Warrior
I don’t argue that Ursoc’s is better for magic damage where IF does nothing. I’ve actually put that information elsewhere that it’s context-dependent. In general though, IF is designed for better defensive throughput.
But for even more context, one moonfire DoT would be the same amount of damage removed from Sundering Strike as the absorb amount you note. TnC would have been even more than the absorb amount removed from the base hit. The other defensive tools in the kit are equally or better designed for magic damage and don’t fall off after one hit too.
I have only done raid as damage so I can’t speak for boss mechanics or how damage comes in there. Our dungeon experiences are probably pretty close to the same though except I’m 10-15 ilvl lower and don’t have tier. In challenging content, IF will be the better defensive option most of the time. In trivial content where passive mitigation makes encounters less threatening and scaling damage means beefier shields, Raze ends up blowing IF away (e.g., I never touch IF during a heroic dungeon).
While it’s possible to achieve, it bothers me is that you anecdotally refer to that much of an absorb shield. That would have been 120k worth of Maul damage – 2-4 lucky crit Mauls and zero other incoming damage events; how the shield was still up to absorb anything is pretty interesting considering the appx. 4-6 seconds of ramp time on GCDs it would have taken to build it. Are you sure you weren’t getting help elsewhere too, like a Sac, Aura, or a Cocoon? (Also, 60k sounds big but on a health pool of 700k is <10% max hp, where an FR would be providing roughly triple the recovery amount. I chuckle at the number since several casters in PvP had spells that could crit upwards of 150-200k in damage, and we can’t even shield that much as a TANK.)
In general, ignoring IF is not recommended. What I want to draw attention to is that you commented that you kept IF up and that’s really important to focus on. Any player reading the comment and trying to learn the spec should really zero in on that. The positive talk around Raze/Maul may only encourage people to make the mistake of thinking they can spend all their rage on damage events, thinking IF isn’t important or shouldn’t be prioritized at zero stacks. Really stepping back from the false dilemma – “which is better” – the skills are best used in combination, as IF increases the total amount of pre-mitigation damage that can be absorbed by Raze/Maul and TnC procs are still highly important for rage maintenance and the mitigation it provides.
I’m gonna guess they’re doing this because they figure bear armor will hit very high values by 10.3 (at which point people start complaining about Thorns in pvp). Then, I’ll be possibly delusional, and imagine figuring out how to do this lets them figure out how to add some other buff that has reduced effect for higher stacks of IronFur.
Deva got or right need to nerf guardian druid more and more buff to all other tanks
Truuuuuuuue. You are the most sensible bear player I know. Bear is too OPed right now, 30s superman mode on 2 min cd, 2 stacks of Lay on Hand on 20s, 30%-50% leech from ursoc and moonfire, 6% vers, and 6% passive DR. Bear is beyond broken, it definitely needs a big nerf.
Nerf Bear ?? Answer this one question. Why is bear the worst tank in-game? with all that you just said .Why is it still not improving ? or maybe you’re implying that guardian players are bad players. If guardian was better than prot pally I would agree but prot pally is doing well in all aspects of the game ,so you won’t see me in the paladin forums posting “Nerf Prot” just saying