We need timewalking ramparts.
BC dungeons should have CC, they need it then, and these time walking dungeons take us back to this time. All 5 of my runs went well except a druid tank who tried to chain pull or a tank breaking my traps. Doing these back in the days could take hours, this went quicker than then and while longer than I may like, it replicates how it actually was and honestly, CC should be a thing again.
Really do you?
Recent experience? No 10 maybe 13 years ago when dungeons were much longer affairs? But also would drop much better rewards at the time.
Tell me how did you think a bunch of un-announced changes and a massive ramp up in difficulty would play out?
What was the reasoning behind the difficulty tuning of casual content towards mid level mythic keys while playing with random players through an LFG system?
Did you ramp up the rewards to match? you didnât did you? nah you want casual players grinding like mad without compensating them with acceptable rewards.
Did you COMMUNICATE your intentions with a lengthy post detailing what you did? No you didnât.
You dropped this in thinking âOh this will be fun and we wonât warn them we cranked HP and damage to make it more challenging, now letâs see what happensâ
The problem is itâs isnât challenging it just more grindy for joke rewards. This isnât how you treat people. You donât make people slog through these and drop rewards that are glorified vendor trash. itâs disrespectful to your players.
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Itâs all relevant. It wonât be great gear if you already have great gear. My only real complaint is that items that do drop are often useless. For any player running a character over level 110, neck pieces are useless and immediate vendor trash. If they can include old instances and adjust the way they work, then surely it canât be that hard to adjust the drops so that they are at least useful when you do manage to get one. As with all instances, you are not guaranteed to get anything. So when you do manage to get a drop and it turns out to be a neck, the frustration can beâŚfrustratingâŚ
A neck item might be fine for a lower level character but its pointless for any 110+ character. If they didnât want to adjust drops accordingly, at least make them scrappable.
Just finished a Heroic shattered halls run on my baby DH (ilvl 347). We hit a few snags and wiped once in the gauntlet, but it was because I forgot how forgiving the spawn timer was on the reinforcement waves.
Going through the dungeon was slower than modern dungeons, but thatâs because I choose to keep control and corner pull just about the whole thing instead of jumping in face-first so I could aggro entire rooms like a n00b.
All in all, it was a nice change of pace from the gogogo! mentality of the modern dungeons.
So, hereâs the thingâŚ
I remember doing SH on heroic back in BC, and it was a LOT easier now than it was then. Nothing in there was overtuned.
The first few mobs are gear-checks. If you donât pull them all at once, youâre fine. Kill them one at a time and they donât hit that hard. If you donât want to completely reset yourself between pulls, you can chain pull them as long as you donât get too many and focus them down one at a time. They hit like trucks and have a ton of HP by design. Theyâre there to make sure you deserve to actually get into the instance and arenât trying to skip a step by heading into a heroic in leveling greens or something stupid like that.
Thatâs how TBC heroics were designed. That expansionâs dungeons, just in general, took a while. You were supposed to figure out the pulls and discuss strategy with your group. You were supposed to coordinate and communicate. Not just YOLO-facepull 3-4 groups at a time.
If you donât like it this way, there are a ton of other expansions where they made dungeons more to your liking. Iâd suggest waiting for one of those weeks.
I share much of the sentiment in this thread in that the TW BC dungeons are very comparable in difficulty to their original iteration. One specific problem I have, however, is when I think back to doing these dungeons at lvl 70, it feels they are currently tuned to make you feel like a fresh 70 in greens and blues.
The content is absolutely doable, since that is what I did these with back in the day, but I also remember it being very brutal and difficult in pugs, which i think is my biggest gripe about how this version of timewalking was tuned. YesâŚin a group of friends who all know the mechanics - EASY AF.
the problem imho is that the gear scaling for this TW event FORCES incredibly tight team play with tons of communication - something WoW isnt know for in the pug environment.
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ExceptâŚit doesnât.
Just did Heroic: Slave Pens on my DH. Pulled one group at a time. Only problem was a wipe on Rokmar the Crackler because I forgot how hard he hits when he enrages and didnât pop a cooldown.
After we ran back, I hit meta when he enraged and we killed him ezpz.
We didnât even use CC or anything. Just steamrolled the entire dungeon one group of mobs at a time. It was easy.
These dungeons just take a bit longer than normal. Theyâre not overtuned or anything.
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I agree, the fact is many people i pug with in LFG donât seem to share this sentiment and are super confused when they can face tank everything =\
Iâve been in groups that understand the deal and have had plenty of smooth runs, but the runs that have been rough have been REALLY rough compared to other TW events
It definitely helps that on my DH Iâm tanking. Beginning of shattered halls the monk ran up and pulled things. I let them wreck him and then grabbed the mobs.
He stopped after that because he got 2-shotted.
These kind of topics ruin TW. Like when Cata TW was perfect. You could pull all the mobs up to the boss and kill them like nothing, and the boss wasnât hard but the mechanics would 1 shot you. Nope, asking someone to move before a boss casts a 3 second, highly visible skill (UMBRISS) is too much to ask of some people, so they nerfed it. At least Ozruk still 1 shots I guess; great memories of my heroic groups hating me as a blood dk in cata cause i wouldnt wipe on him just cause they all died and Iâd make them watch over and over as I dodged his VERY VISIBLE skills xD
Most of this is all related to the world scaling implemented in 7.3.5 which has yet to be fixed. One of the symptoms noted was that at a certain level range (and the 70 capping in BC timewalking is dead in the middle of it) you were, it seemed, taking more damage from enemies and taking longer to kill the same enemies. A temporary bandage was put in place reducing the exp needed to level in order to get you out of the problem levels (60-80), but that does absolutely nothing when this situation pops up and youâre level and gear are capped in the problem area or some of your party is actually at or around level 70. This is the biggest source of the problems, but there are more.
I know my ilvl isnât great, and Iâm not the best tank, but I shouldnât be fighting tooth and nail to maintain threat AND stay alive. Threat seems wildly off in timewalking to the point where Iâm having to tab target and taunt a lot to help make sure threat is even. Also, sometimes I think Iâm crazy, but for some of the damage I take it seems like the 7.3.5 level scaling broke the code for crushing blows or bosses are 73 instead of 72 and the old crushing blows calculation for enemies 3+ levels above you instead of 4+ is in place and Iâm taking a much larger hit than I would at max level. As for crowd control, that ship sailed years ago with Cataclysmâs attempt to reintroduce that. CC requirements for randomized group content is just a bad philosophy. It also doesnât help when you get groups with limited or no CC abilities, and other problems like Repentance for Paladin being a CC ability talent instead of a core ability like Hex, Polymorph, Ice Trap, and Hibernate.
Also, E-V-E-R-Y-T-H-I-N-G dies far slower than it needs to. Bosses, trash, boss adds, small adds summoned by trash mobs, etc. All of it just takes too long to die thanks to the 7.3.5 world scaling changes unless you get lucky and get REALLY good DPS or the lucky times where you get legendary-wielding DPS (I 
you Warglaive rogues during BC timewalking.)
Specific problems with individual instances
-
The Arcatraz
a) Reminding people to clear the entrance in order to stop the endless waves of adds at the start that you will need to get past for the inevitable wipe you will have.
b) Trash that seems to deal more damage than the rest or cause more problems: Skulking witch, Negaton Screamer and Warp-Master (and yes, I do kite them around to stay out of their buff zones), Eredar Deathbringer, and unbound devastator. -
The Black Morass
a) This dungeon can become practically unrecoverable with a wipe if too many adds spawn in the process of getting back into it. This dungeon counts for the one I complete the least. It also doesnât help that like Violet Citadel you canât make this dungeon go faster.
b) Second boss hits like a truck. I died toward the end of the fight when all my damage mitigations were on cooldown and the healer OOMâd. -
Magisterâs Terrace
Not really a lot of problems with this dungeon, -
Mana-Tombs
a) Pulls before the first and last boss are unavoidable and if you pull the boss without killing them they engage as well.
b) Fear-bombs and stun-locks abound with a lot of pulls. -
Shattered Halls
a) Pulls in this place are a pain with no LoS in several areas and ranged enemies. Multiple patrols also make pulls become increasingly larger if you canât kill them fast enough.
b) Invisible rogue mobs before last boss can cause some issues if the healer or tank is the one to get hit first. Iâve lost a DPS a few times to getting stunned and it taking out a mage or something before I can get in and taunt.
c) Ogre boss that fixates on a random party member causes some grief when it fixates on a weaker character or the healer. -
The Slave Pens
a) Crabs hit like trucks and take too long to kill.
b) Second boss and the trash near the second boss always seem to be fatal or near fatal.
c) Poison Nova on last boss is sometimes a massive headache, and sometimes not. Could be dependent on the healers I get, but either way heâs caused a few deaths in my runs.
Also, as it has been mentioned many times before, runing 5 of these for a piece of normal raid gear is pretty useless when an unloseable warfront gives better rewards on a more frequent cycle.
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BC dungeons had mechanics that caused wipes! You know, ten second silences, actual tank damage, they needed cc. They arenât overtuned thatâs just bc for ya ;D I donât mind the rewards from them, more or less just for gearing alts a little quicker imho.
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You have crowd control abilities, use them. Things werenât like today where you can brute force things.
Oh, so you now call opinions incorrect on whatever you pull from your own butt, meanwhile you said TW is challenging yet in a different post you said it wasnât.
Yeah, you are a troll. Not worth bothering with more replies
Did the 5 on all 3 of my tanks. Tuning was perfect. Especially easy on my dh due to imprison(except shattered halls they seem to be resistant or out right immune to it)
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^QFT! Itâs really that easy folks. Learn how to do that from those of us still around that already know and the BC Timewalking will be a piece of cake. The instances arenât over-tuned at all, you just canât charge through them like youâre a 120 in a level 70 instance. Take the time needed to do the above-quoted things and the instances will run smooth and easy. It takes more time to recover from a wipe than it does to do things right the first time.
Semper Fi! 
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Did one yesterday. Every trash pack my ghoul died. Had the same problem in Black Temple in Legion. Never had issues with pets before the level scaling changes.
Exactly. That is why I said that ilvl scaling IS in play in TW. Because the higher I am, the more I suck in them. It use to be WAY different before ilvl scaling and the 7.3.5. patch in Legion by a long shot. Use to be able to do The dark portal dungeon almost solo.
Now its a total joke trying to get it done. The reward is nowhere worth the effort for someone ilvl 385+
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The differences are how stats interacted, if i recall Defense still existed in TBC. Also healing was done differently. So you combo those together, and BOOM, you have a tank pulling 4 packs getting trucked because they dontâ actually know how to use all of their abilities - since they are so used to just mashing their face into their keyboard. And a healer canât possibly keep up, because the fundamental way healers work today is different than during TBC.
I vote we keep the difficulty but up the rewards. The original dungeons were unique and fun due to their challenging mechanics. To disregard that and make it a face-roll LFG grind would sort of defeat the purpose of bringing back the dungeon in general. But at the same time, you want your effort to be fruitful, so if other dungeons like Mythics are just as hard but award better gear, it seems like you wouldnât be getting much of anything for the work you invested into the Timewalking dungeon. That can be discouraging to people to run Timewalking dungeons for anything beyond pure boredom.
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