Each damage over time effect on a target increases the damage they receive from your pet’s attacks by 10%
The issue is - we have at least 5 dots.
50% extra damage for being a dot-managing spec feels terrible in play.
The issue isn’t the extra damage, it’s that BM will have to be tuned around maintaining maximum uptime on those dots…and without the dots (without the 50% extra damage) our pets will hit like wet noodles.
It needs removed or reworked…
Something like 2% extra damage per dot seems like nice enough of a passive bonus.
But ultimately, just deleting the talent all together might be the best solution.
Well the cost an pathing make u for the amount of dmg. Sinse u need call of the wild for both Hero tree. I think the dmg are fine sinse if I want it i lose on other talents and such
For its pathing, I don’t see the damage as an issue.
Personally I’d like to see it separated from Dire Beast.
If it were positioned as low or lower but with access from the centre or left sections of the tree, you’ve instantly got a strong single target + single pet option as an alternate build.
The dot & buff maintenance adding a skill element, and it overall being an interesting alternative to the “summon more pets” approach to BM.
It would be possible to make it an alternate multi-target build too, but you’d need to strip Animal Companion out from gating the beast cleave central region.
It’d be very cool to have both all-the-pets & one-pet-many-dots build options for BM.
If it’s 50% pet damage, i’m not sure it will be an option - but a necessity…is the issue.
Literally everything could end up revolving around dot uptime. Every talent, every trinket, every gearing decision, etc. It has the potential to be really bad.
Give it a bit of time at least to let it play out.
Honestly, managing Dot uptime along with rotation will allow for more complexity with the BM spec. Add in the “summon X after X amount of casts” and you have a class that will take more planning to maintain maximum damage.
I am all for more complexity and raising skill cap for BM from ground level.
If you really don’t like the talent, you don’t have to take it. Just take talents that allow BM to play similar to how it is now.
This topic isn’t about that…but since you brought that up…
The 3 “summon X after Y casts” adds in a complexity that can only be capitalized on by using advanced weakauras. Otherwise, you run the risk of making that “Y cast” while the mob you are killing is at 5% health, thus wasting that ability altogether (or at least mostly).
It’s needlessly complex and easily overcome by using advanced tracking weakauras…which isn’t necessarily a bad thing…but also isn’t necessarily a good thing either.
The implementation of all three of those talents (namely the two higher up in the tree) could certainly be better.
At the end of the day, i’ll do fine with either. I’m thinking of more than just myself, however (the playerbase as a whole).
Also, I understand that super casual play is an option. But that’s not what I strive to do. If some combination of talents are a decent percentage ahead of the others, that’s what I play - that’s what I’m expected to play - because my performance is expected to be similar to those around me. Period.
Edit…
At the end of the day - I’m all for a “more complex” rotation. The point of this thread being that it will not feel good at all when all of our talents, gear decisions, etc - all revolve around dot uptime. 50% additional pet damage is nothing to smirk at. It’s absolutely massive…enough to change everything about the BM kit…and enough to make pets hit like absolute wet noodles when you don’t play it properly.
I’m not sure how people mis-take this feedback to equal “I want an easy rotation.” At the end of the day, I just don’t want the degeneracy that will follow this talent (as is).
I see where you’re coming from here, Avih. 10% per dot will not be optional, and we aren’t talking about warlock dots here. Most of the dots in question are either procs or happen at a point in the rotation that you really can’t control.
Do players really want to be sitting on Wrath, trinkets, Call, and whatever else waiting to proc enough dots to make it worth using? Doesn’t sound fun to me.
This will also lead to BM being a very backloaded spec- not something I think most BM players will be happy about.
We also have to ask ourselves what all dots count. Does Fenrir’s bleed count? Crows? Armor imbues? Black arrow? Traps? This could get out of hand pretty quick.
It is though… 2 of our dots are on these type of nodes, which plays directly into Basilisk Collar.
You don’t need Weakaura to monitor these, but it certainly does help. Both modifiers for the summons are shown on your buff bar. Weakauras just make it easier to monitor. And if you’re expectation is to play at a certain level… Weakaura is usually a requirement.
The playerbase as a whole doesn’t play BM correctly as it is… and you can talent heavily into the left and middle of the tree and maintain BM in its’ current iteration.
To a degree, yes, but understand that you cannot maintain 50% damage increase to multiple targets… this would be the max damage you can do to a single target, IF you are able to stack all your dots on that target. And it will fall off quickly and need to be reset. On the whole, it will give BM the ability for short burst on ST and some benefit to cleave with multi-dotting barbed shot and using Explosive Venom for packs.
It gives BM the ability to reward those who can maintain dots and play pet damage modifiers well, and BM will still do decent, credible damage to those that don’t want to spec into Basilisk Collar.
Currently, Explosive Venom is applied every 6th Multishot/Cobra shot, not on the 5th cast… which has an effect on Basilisk Collar.
Like I said, we need to see how it plays and what the damage spread will be.
Doesn't work with:
Explosive Shot (Wouldn't expect it)
Steel Trap (pls don't)
Black Arrow
Cull the Herd
Fenryr from Dire Beasts
Works with:
Laceration
Serpent Sting from Kill Shot
Barbed Shot
Crows from Kill Command
Bloodshed
So it’s a max of 50%. Only barbed shot, shower-of-blood altered Bloodshed & lacerate can be reliably AoE’d, and not at high target count.
Bloodshed is 30% uptime, on single Murder of Crows should be close to 100% uptime with no rotational complexity, lacerate should be 100%, serpent sting’ll depend on your killshot procs & barbed shot should be 100%.
It’s not going to be a major burden to maintain good uptime & I’d be surprised if you’re taking it outside pure ST builds, although I wouldn’t see low count cleave situations as a problem either.
I get why OP and others are concerned, but personally I see it as a good addition.
Yes so 50% increased pet damage. You don’t think that everything in the entire BM kit (talents, gear, etc) will all be chosen around what gives uptime on that increased damage?
Also, how would 50% increased pet damage not be taken in cleave builds? Reminder: Kill Cleave - cleaves based off of the initial Kill Command damage. Your entire kit will revolve around dot uptime. Period.
You guys can argue for this talent all you want - but the fact remains…it’s going to be absolutely degenerate in practice.
And this further stresses the fact that the new “cast X, Y times to proc Z dot” talents will require advanced weakaura tracking. Otherwise, sending that Y cast into a mob at 5% is even more of a dps loss. Likewise, even with that advanced tracking, holding your Kill Command (or whatever else), because your prio target is at low health, will feel absolutely terrible.
It’s just sad when you post knowledgeable information based on math and experience…and have to fight against some number of 2k rated naysayers who “think it’s a good idea.” I think I just give up honestly. I’ll just reroll to the least-broken class come TWW.
I agree, Lakh. I’d be curious to see someone’s node choices… because maintaining it at 50% damage modifier isn’t realistic.
They often fall off before another Dot is available so the idea to strive for 50% increased damage and maintain that is not realistic.
Bloodshed is available every minute, Murder of Crows after 5 casts of kill command, Explosive Venom after 5 casts of cobra shot/Multi shot, Serpent sting from kill shot (which is on a 10% chance after using Kill Command), Laceration on critical hits from pets.
Bloodshed is 18 secs
Barbed Shot is 10 secs
Murder of Crows is 15 secs
Serpent Sting is 18 secs
Laceration is 6 secs
The idea of being able to maintain all 5 with CD timers for 50% increased damage is mathematically impossible for any long term damage effects. Maintaining 3 is realistic, getting 4 on occasionally and 5 on once with Bloodshed coming back off CD.
I don’t know where peeps got 5 in their head beyong the fact we have 5 available in the tree? But I would love to see a viable talent tree that could actually incorporate all 5 without losing major damage modifiers for the spec.
Basilisk Collar simply seems like a good reward for maintain and using your procs propers for a ST situation.
You can only maintain 50% damage increase for 15 secs in the perfect scenario and at the lowest 6 secs with bad luck. But I implore you to hit a target dummy and see the average up time for your DoT stacks because the fantasy of 50% damage increase with 5 DoTs is just that… a fantasy. It is not realistic with CDs.
What gear would you change to increase this? Haste/Crit/Mastery are already desired stats. There are no talents to decrease CD of bloodshed (one of the 5 dots), and the others will already come with doing the general rotation.
Not sure why you are getting personally triggered by this discussion, but please explain the “math” to maintain 5 DoTs with BM based on CDs and rotation.
You are putting entirely too much emphasis on a talent that is not maintained at 5 DoTs, otherwise show me a video of your “experience” with 5 dots. It’s not feasible.
Maximal uptime on the 5 dots totaling 50% dps - being the goal. 50% dps being not a minuscule amount. If you don’t think that gearing decisions, spec tree decisions, class tree decisions, hero tree decisions, and everything else in the entire game won’t revolve around this OP talent, I can’t help you.
I restate what I previously said… show me a video of your “experience” with 5 dots. It’s not feasible.
Your fantasy of 50% increase damage seems to be from one of the creator videos that were posted with the hunter rework.
I asked you specifics and you gave general word salad as a response. If you don’t want to have a rational discussion based on the reality of the game play, don’t hide behind a confluence of generalized terms…
Show me how you maintain 50% damage modifier under normal conditions… otherwise it is not OP. It’s a short burst window. 20-30% is maintainable. You are looking at this from the perspective from maximum DoTs available, NOT the realistic aspects of getting all 5 DoTs applied at once.
Again, explain (with math!) how you would maintain 50% (5 dots) or stop convulsing on the same regurgitated rhetoric.
Dude stop crying. Have u even checked what u loose from taking it? Cause u seem to forget both hero work with Call of the wild who’s on the opposite side. Hunter loose alot if they pick basilics. And most Hunter wont pick it over Bestial wrath path. And if they pick basilic it mean they sacrifice either their hero spec or bestial wrath. For 3 stack and sometimes 4-5.
Also if u only objective is to cry and maintaint 5 dots at once well u aint playing the right way
Bruh…Surely you can see why your response - doesn’t merit a valid response from me, right?
Same goes for you.
I’m certainly ready to have a valid conversation - but I cannot argue against vitriol and ill-willed people that are participating solely to lash out with bitter insults, whose first intuition is to resort to name-calling, false accusations, and those insults. It’s just not conducive to what the Hunter class needs. Period.
As best I can tell Lacerate is applied by your pet to your target when they crit, which will cause the pet to swap to your target. It’s not “their target” like the tooltip says.
So to get it rolling on even two targets would require you to swap targets every time your pet applies Lacerate, so that new versions are on a different target.
Definitely not seeing people being able to maintain decent stacks of Basilisk on more than one or two targets.