if theres no detail, recount or damage meter that means theres no warcraft logs right? so people would stop caring about parse and maybe a lot of people could get into a group? i raid with a guild and i parse purple but after trying to get in a group with my alt, i can see the struggle that people are complaining about, (regardless that im filling as tank, i am a range dps or linking my main parses) i got declined a lot (like how the f are you suppose to compete against a fully bis toon parsing 8 times my damage when i am in prebis), you got green or gray parser asking for 90+ parse group like this is insane, parsing means ignoring a lot of mechanic (also a lot of rng) which could cause more wipe than anything else idk why it matter so much, as long as you cleared the raid it should be fine, also make your own group is not an option for everybody cause some people are terrible at leading, or just dont have 4 hours to try to fill a raid.
This is a bad solution looking for a problem. Just because a handful of players got their feelers hurt because they weren’t invited to a group doesn’t mean there is an issue with the game. The real issue is the participation trophy kiddos being fragile.
I earnestly don’t think they need to do that. Parsing can exist without the notion that it should also be used to harass other people. If people want to get the most out of their DPS, then props to them. But the only problem comes in when people think that the highest percentage’s possible to clear this content is necessary is the issue.
Grey parsing can be arguable, but, as I’ve always said, none of this content has required the level of min/maxing that some people here would suggest otherwise.
I am torn on this one.
I do like to keep track of parses because I like to find ways to improve. On the flipside there is no way to divorce parsing with human nature to gatekeep and meta min/max. If you give gamers the data you can’t tell them to not use it logically…
If I had to pick between the two I would be in favor of no addons. I know what the game was before them and it was something special
What game was before them? Wow has had addons since Vanilla was retail.
The addons were very limited when the game first came out and not widely adopted. It took a few years before they evolved to the sophistication we see with Warcraft logs and Deadly Boss Mod
that’s a them problem but here are some solutions:
- join a guild
- join a pug that isn’t checking parses
- play retail which has raid finder so people can be forced to play with you
if you aren’t being selective as you suggest there is no need, then it would probably take 10 minutes to fill the raid by inviting the first 9 whispers. advertise you aren’t checking parses/gear/buffs/consumes or 6/6. if no tanks or healers want to join such a group, you or some of the people who joined can respec. you can all learn the raid together.
We still had in-game damage meters if I recall it was called recount.
I’ve played off an on since launch and played from launch all the way through cataclysm before taking a break. We had raid timers and announcers, decursive, healbot like healing mods, and damage meters as early as when Molten Core was released. If anything the earlier mods were alot more “play for me” than the new ones are. There were a lot of mod breaking changes introduced over the first 4 or so years that dialed back what you could do with addons and macros.
Warcraft Logs doesn’t use addons.
Logging is built into the base game via the Combat Log. The only way to get rid of Parsing and Logging would be to remove the Combat Log which will likely never happen. It would break too many other things.
Even if there was some way to break logs players forming groups would find some other way to vet potential members when Pugging. It was Gearscore in OG Wrath and gear inspections in OG Vanilla.
The other ironic thing is that in many other games - players push very hard for developers to implement just this sort of logging system for combat so they can have this sort of information. There’s a lot of people who don’t like it but the competitive community pretty much demands it. That said it’s an arms race between the mod developers and the game developers in terms of devising ways to make things challenging and then then devising ways to simplyfy them for people.
Nah, not how warcraft logs works. Its in the name… it takes from your combat log directly.
The real problem is that so many players want to only DPS, and that’s why the requirements are so high.
Look at healers – they can find a group without any logs or prior experience. Hell even if they have bad logs they’ll get an invite to a good chunk of groups.
Removing addons does nothing to fix the actual problem with pugging, and instead removes common tools that help people figure out how they’re doing.
Side note, the reason you see someone with bad parses looking for folks with really good parses is because they took the initiative to make a raid. Maybe do the same if you’re having trouble getting in a group.
It’s a chicken or the egg sorta thing with healers. A lot of pressure gets put on the healers and when people die in games most of the time rather than look at the moron standing in the bad, they blame the healers. No matter who you are, you can only take so much before you just stop trying. There are a lot of x-healers who are DPS because they don’t wanna put up with the crap.
Also logs don’t mean crap about a healer in terms of their value. I know plenty of meter junky healers that sucked at healing and couldn’t hold down any assignment you gave them. Where as - a DPS can not perform without doing damage that is their job. And to do that job and show up on meters or logs you have to stay alive. So meters are a good measure of how good a DPS actually is.
That’s honestly why I’d love to see the devs actually cave in for this whole “issue”. Folks are gonna see real fast how the problem doesn’t go away at all.
No logs or dps meters will mean your gear is even more important. You wont find groups unless youre full bis.
There will always be people wanting the best players. Make your own group instead of playing the victim. Theres so many of you guys but you refuse to group up together.
In Vanilla we actually did gear checks. We physically made raiders put their gear in the trade window before we had mods to streamline that with gear score. Resist sets and all. Unfortunately you can’t trust everyone, there’s always folks trying to slide by. When your doing things and wiping at 1% those small things people try to slide by on stack up fast in 40 man enviornments.
Odd thing to say considering addons have been in since beta '03.
Logs should always be taken with a grain of salt, but they absolutely do help in showing who does/doesn’t understand their role.
If a healer struggles to maintain let’s say 130hps+ in Gnomer on Menagerie and Thermaplugg then they’re just bad. They might do other things that help the raid, but their low throughput is going to make surviving very difficult.
If there’s another healer taking sniping all the heals then it’s a different story, but if that person genuinely can’t get their consistent hps to a pretty attainable bar then they’re obviously missing something.
People will always look for ways to gauge their cohorts, it can’t really be helped, it does get bad when we reach toxic insecurity levels where people are so concerned about how they are perceived that they start judging everyone around them prematurely as a defense mechanism,
I would like a no addon version of the game so people who just want to play the game and not game the game can hang out,
I think a separate esports server might also help with the issue so those who are pushing for the highest possible dps or sub 15 min clears can have a place with like minded individuals, considering layering it might even be a toggle that means you can restrict yourself to content on the same server and only see people who have selected your preference, but there’s still room for trolling and toxic behavior
don’r forget to utilize the already existing game report system if you notice people being toxic or breaking rules flagrantly hehe
Select the player’s character and right-click the target character portrait or right-click the player’s name in chat. Click Report Player. Select the most appropriate option. Click Report.
Easy as that!
I mean, anecdotal so who knows, but this seems really odd to me, as someone who raids regularly on 4 toons and tries to stay active in the PuG scene, I just don’t see this.
If you are on a fresh toon, and a group says:
/LookingForGroup LF 90%+ parsing warlock for high parse run
for example, then obviously you’re doing a disservice to yourself and to the person asking, “Hey bud, I’m a fresh warlock who has never tanked and am in leveling greens. I didn’t bother getting any runes or enchants yet, because it’s just a game. Don’t be a jerk. So, can I get an invite?”
Hyperbole? You might think so…
Anyway, I don’t usually care too much about logs, like I’m find bringing someone with gray parses for example, but yesterday when I was forming a group, literally the above scenario (well close) happened.
I wasn’t looking for 90%+ parses, but a warlock who had never done Gnomer whispered me on a fresh level 40 saying, “I can tank.” We chatted a bit, and I said I’d take him as a DPS and he would have to hop in discord so I could explain the encounters. Then he ghosted.
Again, of course this is anecdotal. That’s one experience, and others have different experiences. That doesn’t mean any of them are “the norm.”
Perhaps though, they could make a server that disallows all logging and all addons for those who would like to play that way.
