There’s nothing stopping people from running GDKP in a 5-man. The reason they do not is because there is no demand for the items there. Part of this is because swipers are not trying to gear at the traditional pace, but at an accelerated or “carried” pace. People don’t GDKP for 5-mans on Era, either.
Vanilla has BIS and near-BIS gear in every 40-man. There is demand for the items, which is why people run the raid. People who need literally nothing from MC may be there to earn DKP for Naxx (at a horrible rate), but if that was true for everyone then the pot would be empty.
Most of the people in an MC GDKP have something they want to buy from it, and most of the server still doesn’t have Thunderfury. If you ban GDKP absolutely nothing happens to the demand for all of these items. The only people who stop raiding are people who need NO ITEMS in the game across all of their characters. These players are raiding purely for gold, and they have no need for gold as DKP, and they are selling the gold for cash.
When you keep saying no one would raid if not for GDKP, you basically keep saying that this gold you’re getting from GDKP isn’t really DKP, but dollars.
Well I never said level 10s anywhere I don’t think and if I did that would obviously be a type. However you actually log your binding runs? LOL
Once you’re in full T3 (or BIS which is not always T3), its not that big of a deal, you pull 2 bosses, and maybe about 10 trash packs, none that are really that challenging, though a good puller is probably helps if you want to go fast, and skip some trash. Also yeah, 10 is about the minimum I think our group could do it with we usually have a few more, I am sure better players could do it with less, but Garr really is the only thing you need more than 1 tank on.
Obviously if your doing it with a small group your not going to pull it off with less then close to BIS geared players at least for the healers/tanks spots, but I am guessing you really don’t thinks that hard. That said if you guild likes to run a full MC and you like to load up the raid with pugs, thats your choice, you should do it and have fun. There is no right/wrong way to do it.
Speaking as a warrior, if I can do naxx the only 2 raids I need are AQ and Naxx, I have 0 items in anything prior. There are a couple of classes that would need say Accuria or DFT, but as has been the case for literally decades, good luck convincing your guild to go back specifically for those items. Then your options are either host your own pug and HR them, GDKP it, or don’t go. You’d be surprised how many people simply say “Nah I’m not gonna bother”, even with GDKP. Without it? Lmao look at SoD and stop pretending that’s not the reality for 99% of servers in the last 20 years. Kazzak barely runs and is a pain to fill because the only people who want it are warriors that need the hammer.
Those servers are not eternal, non-progressing servers.
When you talk about people not running raids when the next tier comes out, it makes sense because the raid is going to get 30 upgrades per night on the new tier and only a few in the previous. Moreover, it will only be a few months before the next tier comes out, and a few more month before the server shuts down and you buy the next expansion.
With Era being perma-P6, the goal has become to BIS-out. And the PvP focus of vanilla increases the demand for good gear by a lot. You even said it in your post, even with GDKP people didn’t want to go back a tier in SOD or WotLK or whatever. So, it’s not GDKP that is driving people into the old raids, it’s the goal of the players in the game driving them there. Again, if the incentive ultimately isn’t the gear - then it must be dollars.
You literally are not comprehending that the mass of players/alts remaining only exists BECAUSE of GDKP. Era being perma-P6 is a detriment, it is literally one of two servers EVER to sustain a post-end game population, every other server in the last 20 years that has hit endgame is usually barely holding up going into the final tier, and then falls off forever after the initial rush.
I want you to think really really hard what the difference between Era, Warmane’s wrath server, and EVERY OTHER SERVER IN THE HISTORY OF WOW actually is.
There has to be value in continuing to play a character that is at post-game status, otherwise once you’ve cleared all the content, why loop back around? Why make alts? Why get full BiS? There’s only a few people who are in any kind of speedrun guild so why would anyone else care?
I want you to really think about those questions, and come up with a real answer instead of just assuming every server in history actually survives not only it’s final tier release but for more than 6 months after it. Because we have 20 years of proof that that isn’t the case. In fact since classic launch in 2019, we’ve seen 2 retail expansions showcase their fall off over the course of their lifespan, and 4 classic expansions and dozens of servers die in the process.
You have a limited amount of players in servers like these, what keeps a player long past the point that every raid is on farm and their characters are fully geared? Because if there’s nothing keeping the top end players on the server, then you only have the extremely limited pool of new blood, and as they run into issues trying to progress (which they will as the people who were near bis get bis) they will also dry out. We have decades of proof of this. And I need you to understand why that’s the case.
You’re talking about two different things now. Population, and amount of population running previous tier raids. Blizzard kills the population in every old expansion, old raid, old dungeon every time they release a new one. The content on Era stays relevant because it’s the only version of WoW where Blizzard is not doing this.
You make an alt for the same reason you made your main - to play the game. If you don’t need BIS, and you don’t want to the play the game anymore - what do you need the gold for?
The gold is an incentive to play an alt. To level again and use it to try new classes. If you’re raiding and losing gold in the process why would you want to start over?
And no, I’m not. I’m including the 20 years of private servers that didn’t even survive AQ releases, much less years into naxx. I’m talking about how over all these retail expansions there’s been heavy fall off of population in the final tiers as people get bis and have no incentive to log back in, if there was no new xpac, do you think they would come back? Many of them didn’t even for a new xpac.
Okay, so what was the incentive to make your first character when you had zero gold?
If you’re not selling gold for money, the only thing to do with gold is spend it while you play the game. If you’re talking about being able to earn enough DKP to skip the leveling process, the early raids, and jump right into getting carried in AQ/Naxx - then I understand that GDKP facilitates that - but it harms your argument that GDKP is keeping people playing the older raids.
No you need to think. In all of the retail expansions GDKP is allowed. WoW expansions, raid tiers, etc. all die because everyone knows that the new-next-whatever is going to be released in a few months and all of their items will be obsolete.
So you don’t have an explanation for why the early raid tiers of Vanilla stop forming, and you don’t have a reason for why all these geared players have stayed? When we have proof from literal decades of servers that they don’t. You have no real theory for why Era has somehow defied the odds other than “it just does”.
Your entire argument is that the early raid tiers do form. Or are we talking about in 2006?
You’re the one without a reason. You say they raid for gold, but have no need for it because they don’t need items. If they need items, even on an alt - then they have a reason to raid whether it is GDKP or not.
My argument is that they don’t form NORMALLY, we have 20 years of proof that they stop. I’m asking you for an explanation of WHY ERA is somehow different than every other server in history, besides Warmane. And you’re so braindead, that even though I’ve spelled it out for you 3 times, you still can’t answer it, or you won’t because you do know the answer and you don’t like it. Because it would require you to admit that you are wrong.
On non-eternal servers. Pservers that are going to get shutdown or out-hyped next month are not eternal servers.
Lol. Assuming you’re not a lying GDKP shill, you have actual grass-eating animal levels of intelligence. How many times do I have to ask why this falloff still happens in retail where GDKP is allowed? Will you ever answer this?
You can GDKP whenever you want in retail, but every expansion follows the same pattern you describe.
Nobody GDKP’s in retail. Because the market is flooded with armor-type stacked boost groups and achieve sellers. You know, actual pay to win.
Pservers would be eternal if the population stayed, they don’t though. Has nothing to do with other servers coming out. Even 10-15 years ago when there were 3 active servers and nothing new really coming out, the populations didn’t survive AQ release. So why do they stay now? Why is it warmane has remained when every other wrath server dies out? Why has Era stayed when every other vanilla server dies out and eventually is shut down due to lack of pop?
Most anti gdkp players view era not only as the best version of wow but as the best game of all time. They can’t fathom the idea that only like 10k total people actually care about playing era every single day all day for the rest of time. To him era exists forever because it’s era and era is perfect in every way and everything else is trash that’s why it fails but era is different that’s why it’s still around.
Anything else, anything actually logical and grounded in reality will be dismissed.
Retail works differently, so instead of having GDKPs, you get people paying for and getting carried through mythic dungeons/raids. However since retail is devoid of GDKP, maybe you might like it better there?
Haha ok. So the P2W market is dominated by a “different” form of P2W. What about on WotLK, Cata classic, etc. where GDKP is undeniably P2W and gold is bought directly from Blizzard. You still said the issue exists there.
??? Where? GDKP’s ran for all raid tiers even naxx and ulduar which had their loot shoved into heroic+, heroic+ still died because people were only going for the currency to buy trinkets.
I’ve already explained that Era is different in that it is the only server we have that is not getting shut-down or overwritten with a new expansion - which is the reason why its content (and especially its items) do not lose value.
You’re on the era forums, so people like vanilla here. (Quite a shock, I’m sure, in your degenerate benzo-induced Sunday stupor)
This is a retail character that I’m posting on and it has orange rank for every m+ dungeon.
End of expansion is end of expansion, it’s a stagnant p6 server. That doesn’t make it different enough to change how gdkps work or the players that use gdkps. Nice cope.
Huh? So you have one point, then insult, then schizo ramblings.
It’s funny how irritated you get for being wrong and bad.