Baine "represents all that is best about the Horde"?

Lore Story Forum
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Likely to pull Talanji into the horde conflict?

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Bait thread. But anyways Baine is cool and Sylvanas is a loser.

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I speculate that this is all because Lor’themar doesn’t have the spine to stand against Sylvanas on his own, and without Vol’jin around to hide behind, he needed someone else who he could support and put in front of Sylvanas so that Lor’themar doesn’t have to be the frontman himself. Without Lor’themar knowing anything about what was happening with Saurfang or Thrall, that left Baine.

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Or he only acted when he saw the opportunity to do so. Do you have any proof that his delay was due to cowardice or malicious reseasons?

So he would exhibit the best of the Horde by just throwing up his hands and leaving the Horde because they are beyond hope?

Loool Saurfang is tired of slaughter he helped create?
But yeah I can’t defend Baine or any Horde leader for their inaction so far.
As far as I am concerned they are all just as guilty as she is.

Why is him acting when no one is looking such a huge issue to you? He got the job done. Saurfang stood by and watched Teldrassil happen. Hell he even joined the Lordaeron defense. Why are you giving a pass at Saurfang but not Baine?
At least be consistent in your dislike.

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I was thinking about making a thread w/ the exact same title. Baine represents what is best in the Alliance. It was a typo. Baine is more human than human ( not the White Zombie song).

Baine could have gone to the other leaders when he though some thing was wrong… but he goes straight to the Alliance. He is like the American Snowden dude, defecting at the first sign of trouble when he doesn’t get his way. His afterlife will be worse than Sylvanas.

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When he first visited Derek in Dazar’alor, there were fewer guards than on the boat. If he could fight through the boat and steal it, he could have made his attempt right then.

Unless you think the best of the Horde is standing around and talking about how wrong things are, then this is a non-argument.

According to him? Yes. Baine clearly wasn’t, because he stuck around.

As I said initially (clearly you missed that paragraph), Saurfang is an active force. He doesn’t wait until he’s caught to make his stand; he goes and makes his stand. He doesn’t skulk around; he goes and acts. He doesn’t complain that things are wrong; he goes and gets the help he needs to fix it.

Your argument seems to be that Baine is a better person. That was never a question, and not an argument I’m having.

Saurfang is a better representative of the Horde. Baine is passive. Saurfang is active. The Horde isn’t a passive force; it’s an active one. It has always been and currently remains such. The Horde runs into battle; it’s how it has always been and continues to be. Baine stands and waits. The Horde throws itself fully into a conflict; Baine stands by and weighs his choices. The Horde is loud, aggressive, forthright. Baineis none of those things.

Baine is more of an Alliance character than a Horde one. He’s inoffensive and diplomatic. These are not bad traits, but what they are not is Horde traits.

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Could you differentiate what is so different between the Horde and Alliance besides the races and flags? This game is not that nuanced that we can see any REAL cultural differences between either factions.
I have never had a quest that I would do that would strike me as “Wow, now this is how Orcs/Horde do business.”
The only time I ever got that impression was doing quests for Gnomes or Goblins because of how silly and over the top they are.

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I think now I better understand your point of view. Thanks for clarifying.

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Tbf, literally anyone represents the Horde better than Sylvanas, even the AR leaders like Thalysra or Talanji.

So it honestly doesn’t surprise me that an Alliance sympathizer like Baine is still considered a better rep for the Horde than Sylv, because he at least retains some semblance of morality.

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You mean like how we rescued Thrall, how the Alliance help Vol’jin rebellion or how the Horde had to rescue Talanji?

Without Jaina and Anduin he would be a ruler in Exile while Magatha took his city. Those two helped him at his hour of need while the greater majority of the Horde undef Garrosh did nothing.

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I’ll speak for Car and say no, not like that at all. Ignoring Vol’jin’s rebellion because of how much of a false comparison that is (I mean, you’re not even rescuing him so WTH Zarde??), Thrall’s presence throughout WoW has one instance where you actually rescue him (goblin starting zones) and one where you go back in time and help him escape. Contrast that with his numerous other moments of badassery (he was a hoss in Escape from Durnholde during BC, and gave you a super-typhoon to wipe out ships with after rescuing him, just to pull out examples from those same storylines). Talanji was arrested on a diplomatic mission and didn’t seem to fight back, because during that escape she showed nothing but strength.

Baine’s storylines have nothing like that. Thrall and Talanji came across as needing help getting out of their binds, but will whip butt right after. Baine needs help because he’s apparently incompetent otherwise.

This doesn’t help him out as a proper representation of Horde values. You’re not invalidating Car’s argument at all.

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Baine hasn’t worked with the Alliance any more than all of the PCs have. The story is constantly forcing the Horde and Alliance to put aside differences for the betterment of Azeroth. Baine is simply a diplomatic character in a world overrun with characters who understand only violence.

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Does Baine even represent all that is best about the tauren? I really can’t think of anything about him and his story that isn’t done better by other tauren. Runetotem, Dezco, Tholo Whitehoof, Aponi Brightmane, and even that one tauren from stonetalon mountains questing all are better tauren than Baine. They all have a willingness to reach across the isle, but don’t appear weak while doing so (or, at least we don’t know if they’re mutilating themselves behind our backs). They all are at least somewhat successful in their endeavors. Baine seems to screw up everything he does. If nothing else, the others solidly represent their roles and classes. Baine is a warrior in name only (has he even been in a serious fight before?)

Even Mayla is a better choice for a Horde leader than Baine. Yeah, she’s new and inexperienced (her backstory is basically the same as Baine’s), but she was only introduced in Legion. Baine’s been “new and inexperienced” for several years now, and he’s still somehow feels more like a bumbling sidekick than anything.

Literally the only reason he leads the tauren is because he’s Cairne’s son. Putting Baine in charge is basically using the same logic as putting Garrosh in charge. Yeah, sure, he’ll grow into the role. Just like he’s grown into his current role.

Baine’s been around since TFT. There’s been more than enough time for him to do something than be the Honor Horde’s bumbling sidekick.

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Me and Baine were smashing Sylvanas loyalists heads in like ballers when we rescued Jainas brother. Seemed like a pretty strong beefy dude to me. He also stood up to the Warchief and pointed his cow finger at her telling her off.

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Surrender. Rastakhan’s funeral Hordeside has him telling Talanji to surrender to the Alliance. Sylvanas tells him to take a hike.

I’m not Horde and I still believe Baine embodies the Tushui philosophy more than the Huojin. I’ve never actually seen Baine kill any Alliance. Maybe I’ve forgotten something, but his Alliance/Horde kill ratio skews heavily on Horde lives.

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So what was Baine talking about that?

And you’re more knowledgeable?

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Negotiations are the words he used. That doesn’t mean “surrender”. Saying he said things he did not say makes you a liar :grinning:

I’m more Horde!

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David Attenborough voice

Behold; the Baine Thread in its natural habitat.

This new breed of collective whinging is expected to become the new apex predator of the forms as experts predict Sylvanas threads will go extinct within the next two years…

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Better people make for better leaders. You put a bad person in charge and you get a tyrant. Put a good one in charge and you get a beneveloent leader.

The moral compass of the leader matters a ton.

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Outside of a warning to Jaina that accomplished nothing (because it was always Garrosh’s plan to wait till Theramore was reinforced before dropping the bomb; turning the city into a Horde meatgrinder), and releasing Derek to Jaina (which, lets be honest … if it WASN’T Sylvie plan to pressure Baine into releasing the Proudmoore corpse, her plan was garbage; and only would have served to further escalate the conflict … which the Horde was loosing on all fronts) … what exactly has Baine done for the “Alliance” (Jaina) that has come at the Horde’s expense?

Not to say that I’m fond of the poor character being used as little more than a token “Good Horde” plot device (to act as a counterbalance whenever Blizz really wants to go off the deep end with another character) … but there does seem to be a lot of hyperbole whenever it comes to the sort of things he’s done that were Pro-Alliance. Hell, him sending part of his horn was him following his Warchief’s orders and severing ties with Anduin? He’s also never really done anything for Anduin, or the Alliance outside of Jaina (she is the ONLY Alliance characters he’s really aided).

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