Thrall wasn’t very godlike I feel, but I agree Aggra is prime bad character material.
Yeah, Thrall is a much better character now that we haven’t seen him in a few expansions. He was never a bad character, just wildly overexposed and way too obviously an avatar for Metzen’s ego. Now that he’s been out of the spotlight for years we can look back on his whole career with its ups and downs and see that he has had a pretty interesting character arc, all told. By the end of Cataclysm I never wanted to see his smug green face again but at this point I think I’m about ready to.
Khadgar just got flanderized into a purveyor of dad jokes and it was tiresome. I feel like he was being largely wasted for most of Legion; his goofy, paternal style was fun in Warlords because it was a neat contrast to the seriousness of everything he was doing, but as usual Blizzard detected something people liked and then leaned on it too hard so that it became annoying. I do feel, though, that Khadgar (as a character, not as a person per se) was redeemed in the BfA pre-launch storyline. He was just so sad and tired and disappointed with the escalating hostilities. Seeing that did more to drive home the futility of the war than any of Anduin or Tyrande or Sylvanas’s posturing.
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5 superpowered dragons couldn’t stop Deathwing but he could
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And Sargeras sawed a planet in half. In Wow’s universe Thralls power level wasn’t god-like. The actual literal gods created life and terraformed planets to their whim. Thrall ain’t doing any of that any time soon. He also had a souped up Dragon Soul of which all the aspects poored their power into.
I really don’t ever remember seeing that. I have seen screenshots of it but I don’t remember seeing any of it during the War campaign and I’ve done everything up to the new raid. I must have blanked it out or missed it all together somehow. ![:thinking:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/thinking.png?v=6" ":thinking:")
yeah if im remembering right he was also the only person that could handle its power
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It might have been something you overhear them talking about when you’re Alliance. Honestly, a lot of the Horde war campaign runs together in my head.
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I like all of the story right now. Some is weaker than others of course but there’s not much I’d change.
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bring back thrall and bring back thralls hair
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Controversial but good writing
- Saurfang.Yeah I know tons of people are sick of him but at least he is reacting in a logical fashion to what Sylvanas is doing, and he embodies how most horde players (other than diehard undead-playing Sylvanas loyalists) feel about the story.
Counterpoint: I hate how Sylvanas is being written, and still think that Saurfang is the absolute worst part of this expansion. Literally all he talks about is “honor”, but throughout the entirety of BfA, I have no idea what he actually means by that, or where his line is drawn compared to Sylvanas. It’s all mealy-mouthed nonsense.
Case in point: he sabotages his own strategy for capturing Teldrassil because he’s upset over how he struck a “dishonorable blow” against Malfurion. This is not good writing. Or if it is, I suppose it implies that Saurfang’s concept of honor is that he’s never allowed to hurt anyone, even on the battlefield, without firmly squaring his hips and making direct eye-contact with them first?
Then he’s sad about Teldrassil and tries to commit suicide-by-Alliance, only to have Zekhan talk him down in a genuinely beautiful scene. After which point, he runs off for a bit and comes back just to call out Sylvanas for DISHONOR, but is apparently too much of a coward to challenge her in the name of “his” Horde, so he tries to commit suicide-by-Alliance. Again.
Then he gets captured, and admits to Anduin that the only reason he didn’t kill them all is because he wanted them to stop Sylvanas. Yet doesn’t seem very willing to actually fight with them against her. So he’s, like, not happy with Sylvanas, but not sooooo unhappy that he feels the need to personally do anything about it. (At least, not until Anduin talks him into it.)
Cool. Very cool. That’s some real leadership material right there.
If he becomes the new Warchief by the end of this expansion, I might have to seriously consider retiring all of my Horde characters.
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This is a very valid complaint. In all honesty, I see it as an issue with the concept of orcish honor that has been a thorn in the side of the entire lore from the franchise’s beginning, not something that’s started or ended with Saurfang. In a sense, he is a perfectly consistent example of orcish honor, in that we don’t know what the hell that means except that he feels sad about doing horrible things but does them anyway. That’s been how Blizzard has written orcs from the get-go.
“Honor” is an unfortunately nebulous concept that very few fantasy franchises have done a good job of nailing down in precise terms; Warcraft has done a worse job than most, chiefly because it insists on making this nonsense honor a focal point of the story whenever an orc is on screen. And since we don’t know what the rules are, we have no way of judging how honorable a given action is until some orc is bragging or moaning about it afterward.
Controversial and bad, in other words.
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they can’t even stick with the normal “honor” idea of no backroom dealing or sneaky plans or not being a traitor
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Solution: Have Abby Lewis start following Sylvanas around, maternal instincts ensue, Addams Family style spin off. Saurfang watches and dies of shock, Zappy inherits Horde and peace begins.
In all seriousness though, yeah, the whole orcish over emphasis on honor has always seemed a bit odd, all things considered. Honestly, I’m kind of expecting Sylvanas to abdicate her position by the end of the expansion, having just used it as a means to achieve some end and now simply no longer caring about it. Say, a way to physically enter the Shadowlands while still ‘living’, perhaps, which would wrap things up in a neat little bow for Blizzard in that they needn’t kill her off, and yet Saurfang loyalists can feel vindicated at the same time as he helps pick the new guy.
On the topic of writing though, one thing I will say, is that I very much enjoy the added voice overs and interjections this expansion!!! It definitely makes the questing stand out a great deal more, even if it does highlight the bad writing as much as it does the good.
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I wanted to write this earlier but I was at work. Sorry.
Blizzard once again doesn’t understand the concept of how to have players make meaningful choices or make the impact of these choices matter. It doesn’t really matter what you do with any choice in these questlines. It’s honestly annoying and patronizing to see them.
You’re now offered a choice to side with either Sylvanas or BAINE “THE ALLIANCE SYMPATHIZER” BLOODHOOF. You side with him and YOU KILL horde soldiers for no other reason just because.
Baine has informed the alliance of horde attacks multiple times over the years. He is nothing like his father. He’s an alliance lapdog that should be killed. But once again your decisions don’t matter because it seems either way Baine gets thrown under the bus.
There were multiple ways he could have been written to not side with the alliance but he has always done so. Even with the demons at the gate he was telling Nathanos to open up peace talks. He’s a genuinely stupid character.
This isn’t me about loving the horde or hating the alliance. I hate the way the story for this game is going.
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Agreed, 100%. My only 120 so far is a worgen rogue and I absolutely adored Kul Tiras. Drustvar was my favorite (it’s everyone’s favorite, whoopty-freakin-dooooooo) and I enjoyed a lot of the storylines we got in the questing experience.
… And then capping 120 and suddenly being faced with warfronts and such was like slamming into a concrete wall covered in poop at 80 mph after I had been enjoying a lovely weekend drive through some spooky woods.
Exaggeration aside, capping the character and being jerked back into the war campaign absolutely deflated my enthusiasm. It has yet to return; Zandalar has been okay for me but awareness of the frigging war narrative makes me just not want to even bother.
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Controversial yet good? Baine Bloodhoof
He’s a good and necessary character because the horde is severely lacking in anyone who has even the most mild shreds of empathy and compassion and despite what male orc warriors would have you think those are actually pretty standard and good qualities
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I guess the problem lies in the fact that it took so long for him to act on his convictions, and he didn’t do so for an entire city of burning civilians but for a single captive undead man. Like, I’m happy that they’re actually writing him to DO something for a change but it seems too little too late.
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I would also disagree with this pretty vociferously, though I haven’t gone through the war campaign of 8.1 yet, so maybe he gets… better?
But oof, the Battle for Lordaeron soured me on him so hard. He would be such a great source of dissent within the Horde, but having him blame Sylvanas for “leaving Saurfang to die” was just… what? Seriously? Out of all the possible things, THAT is what he chooses to complain about?
Things that Baine Bloodhoof is apparently mostly fine with:
- Literal genocide of the Night Elves. Have yet to hear him peep up about this one.
- Dropping Blight on Horde troops during a retreat and raising them as mindless undead.
Things that Baine Bloodhoof finds morally inexcusable:
- Not literally dragging Saurfang along by his collar like some child throwing a tantrum in the middle of a store, or taking him prisoner to actively prevent him from throwing himself at the nearest blade.
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To me, bad writing is when you ignore or contradict the established themes of a story without meaningful or convincing reasons for the change.
Good writing that goes against themes is Jaina’s character arc. For some time she was a champion for peace. Ultimately this was chipped away by Garrosh’s extreme expansionism putting her in conflict with the Horde, which in turn put her in conflict with even peaceful Horde who had come under attack by Northwatch and Theramore’s troops. She no longer seeks peace because she has in fact learned that such pursuits can ultimately cause extraordinary grief and trauma. Even then, they carry through her character in Kul Tiras. Her beliefs were never wrong, the application was what was wrong. She wasn’t wrong to step aside, Daelin was wrong. We learn this in her character arc. She was -also- wrong in being too trusting and non-committal. It stays true to the character.
Bad writing against themes is the Horde all wanting to burn down Teldrassil except for Saurfang alone. It is bizarre, comes out of left field, and will ultimately mean nothing. The Horde had a dialectic of imperialism or heroism in Cataclysm, where several leaders grew dissenting of Garrosh because of his vicious ways, including Vol’jin and Cairne. A revolution happened in MoP which created Synthesis, the Horde that both defends itself and upholds self-control and restraint. However, this theme was ignored to repeat it in Battle For Azeroth, with CDev going as far as to say: “The Horde has never before dealt with their nature” in a Lore Q&A earlier this month (roughly paraphrased). We only have one orc, one troll, and one tauren who care about the immoral actions of Sylvanas, which goes entirely against the established themes of the Horde. Undoubtedly there will soon be a huge number of Horde who were ‘against her all along’ but it is cheap and makes the entire faction look ridiculous.
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If he made a stink about the actual meaningful conflicts the story would be over much faster, wouldn’t it? If he actually cared about Teldrassil then he would be much more aggressive about his dissent, which is something Blizzard just really doesn’t want to write. No one but Saurfang cares, or even acknowledges it ever happened. We don’t hear Rexxar’s thoughts, and considering he has left the Horde over less in his lifetime, it’s a curious dissonance.
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