The map is the same as it always was, the same map that Alliance used to win handily back in the day. The difference is the players. Same as with raids.
I know the map is the same. That’s why I’m asking. What does horde do now that they didn’t do then? Is it just that no one knew to hold icewing bunker choke from the south until horde controls all three GY around field of strife?
The map has three basic metas.
Both sides can zerg and it’s a ~50% win rate with fast games and good honor/rep for both sides win or lose.
Both sides can play mixed offense defense, which is once again a ~50% win rate with good honor/rep for both sides but slower games.
Or horde can play scorched earth, a strat alliance has no effective counter to, which results in long game with good honor/rep for horde but nothing for alliance.
In vanilla the first two metas were what was typically happening. Scorched earth didn’t become a thing till BC when reinforcements were added. and is now being used in classic. The result is the same horde get a near 100% win rate but alliance stop queuing as there’s no reason to.
No effective strategy vs scorched earth?
AV weekend proves you wrong.
And you have no actual facts to base that on, seeing as we haven’t access to the early versions with classic classes and talents.
Well we know how hard the mines and npc’s hit and they wouldn’t be a major impediment given the current gear levels. They might have been when AV was mostly populated by lower levels and people in greens who didn’t know how to play the map but that’s not the case.
The only consistent way to win as alliance is to have a 40-man premade run straight to drek with epic mounts. Trying to play the map as intended is a massive massive disadvantage to alliance, due to the huge imbalances at every point on the map:
IB favors horde, spawn caves favor horde, SF favors horde because they will always get there first, the difficulty of defending the open layout of SH favors horde, bunkers favor horde because they’re closer and balinda is easier, SP favors horde because you’re trapped in a choke at spawn, even the base favors horde due to the backdoor, and don’t forget shamans also favor horde because ranged is better on this map, and racials favor horde if you’re having a straight-up fight (especially war stomp), and lokholar favors horde if it stalemates because the shamans dont stand in a retarded position unlike the druids which stand in the center of the FoS which is technically horde territory bc all their spawns are closer.
Your initial post is non-sensical because the massive map imbalance is why alliance can’t make a “5 step plan” because every aspect of the map favors horde. Alliance did make this plan, and it was rushing drek. But blizzard nerfed that (because they also favor horde) so now alliance is stuck playing a busted map which there’s very little chance of winning given equally skilled and geared teams.
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I didn’t know that all your excuses about players with good gear and trying to win pushing the winrate up from 1% to 5% proves that the map isn’t to blame…
seems to destroy every argument you all have.
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You just described a good majority of the current alliance in AV, just saying.
And using an older version of AV wouldn’t bring back the more serious alliance players who were there when it opened.
I’ve seen far more than a 1 to 5% increase in alliance win rates on AV weekend.
But I guess this is where our personal experience differs. Last AV weekend I played on saw alliance with around a 40-50% win rate of the games I played out of the 11 games I got off on that weekend with Alliance winning 5 of those games. Best AV games I’ve had in a LONG time. Even with the loss factor because I was actually playing against people playing the map as a PvP war scale BG instead of the pve rep farm simulator most alliance seem to treat it as.
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Nothing would bring them back outside of HPH that is faster than AB and WSG. However it WOULD potentially make the perceived imbalances a bit less impactful. Put Korrak and the elite trolls back in the center of the map, the syndicate back where they were, and the explosive mines, despite your claim that they would not make a difference. Those who ARE still playing AV would benefit.
And the winrate issue is caused by many factors. The map is not the major contributor to the alliance loading most of their AV games. It’s just the alliance want to blame something other than themselves so they chose to blame the map.
/shrug if you want to continue being blind to the root issue of AV which is the map that’s fine. Enjoy your ever increasing queue times.
sappers flasks no sub 60s or afks
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Noted poster Zyrius, who never fails to push back against the suggestion to use earlier versions that would help with perceived imbalances
Noted poster Misadventure, who never fails to ignore reality of map imbalance and has no clue that older map is just as broken, as well as never being able to explain how to beat an IBGY defense
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Focusing on things that you personally do not like does not equate to “imbalance”, and any perceived imbalances would absolutely go away with the original content, and
numbers/levels of mobs/NPCs. As far as IBGY “defense” is concerned, you ignore every time players explain how to neuter it.
There is 2 ways past ibgy either ride past the flag or on the road. Shgy has a wide open space if alliance were too coordinate 10 people to ride through or by shgy while others did a wide ride right next to iwb u would probably get a few through.
I was in a av today alliance were trickling past iwb 1 by 1 after we got spgy so it was pretty easy to snipe them.
It’s not a question of getting people south, it’s that once they die there they are now stuck north of SHGY as horde have almost certainly started the soft cap on SHGY by that point.
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