I would be fine with them fixing the druids pathing and bug issues, but your still trying to push horde map advantage as being better than alliance when the alliance actively dismiss every advantage they have and just stare at what horde have and cry about it…
I’m also fine with a random start for which team starts on at which base, because I don’t believe the map is the issue. It’s the perceived map imbalance destroying alliance moral, the que time difference making alliance better skilled players either not go in to AV because they are HPH farmers or intentionally lose because it’s more rep/hph to play until turnins are done then lose them it is to play a game for an additional hour to have a good chance at winning (most of the better PvP alliance go to premades for these reasons, causing a skill gap between teams). The gear difference because of alts vs mains in AV. And multiple other issues that contribute to alliance losing.
Well when you dismiss the power of the bridge, graveyard, and cave compounding defensive power, letting you hold off 40 horde with about 20 players (and letting the rest run offensive) it’s clear your not going to listen at all.
Your not using your strongest map advantages how they were designed to be used, so of course the map feels unbalanced.
It’s like going into a gun fight with a rifle and using it as a club while the other person uses the rifle as a rifle… Of course the other person will win 99% of the time at that point…
When you say these things matter when they never come into play it’s clear your [sic] not going to listen at all.
Once SPGY gets taken all those dead alliance get bumped to the cave and not to the FA station. The horde cross the bridge, overwhelm the few alliance there (the ones who are sitting around and not actively defending because if they were defending they would have died at SPGY), and then use the bridge as the wonderful choke that it is against the alliance.
Now the 40 horde are free to do what they want in Dun Balder. Put a few at the bridge to use that wonderful choke against the alliance, send some south to recap, or just end the BG quickly by killing Vann.
This is the way that pretty much all AV end up. Your fantasy of a huge alliance defense of DB using the bridge would likely only happen if the cave was the GY of last resort. Then people dead at SPGY would go to the FA station and they could be in position to use the bridge choke to its fullest.
So your team is failing to fall back across the bridge before they are all killed (the backline should already be on the bridge), your team is failing to use their trinkets to get to the aid station when cave rezing, your team is failing to position themselves for death to chose if they Rez on aid station or cave, they are failing to send stealth teams to disrupt horde supply lines or even go on offense, and they are failing to aoe the bridge as the choke point it is.
And this is why your map advantage doesn’t effect the win rates for alliance. Because your not even using them to ANY degree. Congratulations you aren’t using the rifle as a club, your using it as flute with the barrel of the gun in your own mouth.
It’s funny that alliance always need to do “more” for their map advantage.
Every scenario you suggest is alliance doing “more”. That literally shows the imbalance.
Horde get to Zug Zug one graveyard till it caps.
Alliance need to solve the weight of the last supper, divide it by the amount of weight of those who attended it, subtract the weight of the number of hairs on Jesus’s head, divide it by the weight of his chair, multiply that by the amount of pollen in the air, then add the weight of a drifting asteroid 4,000 light years away.
Doesn’t happen. These are random BG and not premades, you can’t expect players to be very organized. If people did fall back like this then they would be giving up defending SPGY early. Yes, the bridge is a great place to defend if you have the people but very few people do this because they are desperately trying to hold on to the current GY.
You need to rez (up to 30 seconds), equip trinket and run outside the cave to use it (about another 15 seconds), use the trinket (10 second cast), zone in (a few seconds). So that’s 50 seconds or so. Not only that but you come in right on top of the flag and the horde sit there and AOE it like mad. Even if you can run into Vann’s keep there’s no place to hide in there, you can be killed while you’re in there without anything being pulled. Thus there’s very little chance that anyone coming in will survive, so rinse repeat.
See points above.
Yes, the best would be to have an organized group that falls back as a unit when SPGY is no longer defendable, goes across the bridge, turns around, and uses the choke. But that never happens because it’s a random BG. There is little hope of organization, especially when people have already fought for over 1/2 an hour and gotten beaten back over and over again.
Even if this defense works then what? Send people down through the IWB choke? You’re going to run into groups of 5 to 10 horde coming from the latest rez at SHGY so you need to do it 10 or 15 at a time to even have a chance to get past that. And once you try that the horde will just sit at that choke in larger numbers.
Even if a group gets south then what? Take an objective or two, have horde come back to re-cap it. Fat chance you’ll take and hold anything long enough to use it.
No, sitting at the bridge is just wasting time. It is not going to lead to a win, the best you can hope for is a long turtle. And for the alliance the next game is 5 minutes away, it doesn’t pay to turtle.
So no, your arguments make no sense at all. They are not based in reality and are simply bad theorycrafting.
So your team is failing to fall back across the bridge before they are all killed (the backline should already be on the bridge), your team is failing to use their trinkets to get to the aid station when cave rezing, your team is failing to position themselves for death to chose if they Rez on aid station or cave, they are failing to send stealth teams to disrupt horde supply lines or even go on offense, and they are failing to aoe the bridge as the choke point it is.
And this is why your map advantage doesn’t effect the win rates for alliance. Because your not even using them to ANY degree. Congratulations you aren’t using the rifle as a club, your using it as flute with the barrel of the gun in your own mouth.
All of this “advantage” is only in play when Alliance have already lost 2 bunkers and 1 or 2 graveyard. Hordes have a lot of the map advantage before losing any/not as much objectives as Alliance. Isn’t this the very definition of imbalance?
How exactly does the bridge choke point help Alliance to win in AV? By the time the horde is at the bridge, the game more than likely is already over. How exactly do you suggest Alliance breakout of this situation?
It’s a good thing the only win condition of 1.12 AV is killing. The last boss, because until that changed in TBC with reinforcement mechanics, the map favors the alliance. If only they could figure out how to use their map advantages like alliance have been doing for 15 years of 1.12 AV play.
Alliance can’t hold SFGY because until it hard caps any alliance that die there RESPAWN AT AID STATION. Do you really think horde would be able to hard cap SFGY if they respawned at RH when they died there and alliance respawned at SHGY?
And alliance have an “obsession” with IBGY because we have to go past there to get to Drek and we coincidentally also have to have a southern GY relatively close to Drek, and also coincidentally, IBGY has a great choke point to prevent our reinforcements getting past it south before we have hard capped eithe rFWGY or RH if we do not hold IBGY.
AV is a war of attrition. That’s the whole reason why graveyards even matter. Can you get reinforcements to where they are needed and how quickly can you get them there if so. IWB pass held by horde (with SHGY capped) can stop any ally reinforcements getting south if there is no GY hard capped south of that point. IBGY held by horde can stop any ally reinforcement from getting south if there is no GY hard capped south of that point. The only times horde ever face that same scenario is at SPGY and potentially IGBY. If alliance have hard capped IBGY and horde have no GYs north of there hard capped, and going north past IBGY is much easier against opposition than going south past IBGY against opposition. A very cursory glance at the geography there should explain why. Why do horde have “an obsession” with capping SPGY? Why don’t they just skip it?
Right I forgot, in 1.12 Drek walks to the DB bridge and confronts alliance before the ice guy gets summoned. Blizzard better get right on top of fixing that bug in classic.
Oh and he also manages to evade the dangerous ram team 7 while doing so.
OK I get all of that, but my question is still not answered. Why do alliance think they can hold one GY - IBGY - over another GY - SF - when both GYs have their backup coming from the same place, SP? Horde could spawn 5 at a time at FWGY and still get 10 players back to IBGY before alliance spawning 10 at a time at SP can get back to IBGY and that’s assuming all 10 make it through SH. I never even suggested that alliance skip IBGY. I just don’t understand why they think having the same spawn there will have a different outcome than SF.
Alliance obsession with IBGY is that they have convinced themselves that if they can just capture that one GY, they can turn this ship around, but they can’t capture SF with the same spawn as what they are asking for at IBGY. No matter which GY you try to capture, your backup will be coming from SP.
In the grand scheme it’s irrelevant because the overall problem comes down alliance having to hold that GY while not letting SHGY get soft capped. An issue horde doesn’t have with IBGY.
I’m not going to make a video about this but Alliance definitely respawns at Aid Station if they die at SFGY even when we hold SHGY and SPGY. It’s one of the many issues we have.
If you are south you should spawn at stone hearth if that’s the only grave yard capped.
Are you saying there’s a bug that sends southern alliance to Stormpike when clearly Stonehearth is capped?
Yeah we’re going to need video evidence and then they’ll fix the bug.
I don’t know why we don’t try to grab Snow Fall and then do Galv. but ally skip galv for some reason. Horde couldn’t possibly take stone hearth and hold snow fall if ally actually played the game.