We have been over this. Neither of those BGs usually last longer then 20 minutes or so. Horde queues are also far shorter for those BGs (20 minutes or less) altering the incentive to scratch out every ounce of honor to be had there.
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There are exceptions, but they are uncommon. AV will almost always last longer than 30 minutes and Horde have 2+ hour queues. It is a massive difference between the BGs and the way Alliance and Horde approach that map is reflective of those queue times and game lengths.
Nope. Still want the changes. Still think even trying that Alliance would only win 40% of the time at best with the current map and player allocation. The respawn system was dumb 15 years ago and it is dumb today.
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Edit: I would also point out that the length of time between games is a pretty strong indicator regarding the quality of player queuing Alliance side. 3 games tells me that AV is an afterthought of a queue. And TBH, right now for Alliance side it absolutely should be. Thatâs why I want changes. I want it to be fun again.
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Edit 2: And honestly, I believe that AV should be a living map because the map is asymmetric. Because the player base changes somewhat continuously, there should be a number of features within the map that can be activated without a hot fix allowing the devs to respond to things like this where one faction is getting steamrolled regularly.
Another factor is that the losing side in WSG but particularly AB can actually do decently. Outside of flat out blow outs ie pug vs premade there is seldom cases where alliance is punished as badly as being stuck north of SHGY.
There is no universe that exists where in any competitive sporting event that an over 90% winrate, where both sides are pulling from the same pool of players, is winning due to sheer attitude. You could possibly make the argument if like a 55 vs 45 ratio. Thats when the intangibles like que time/skill/motivation come into play.
But for an over 90% win rate? Not a chance.
Why do you think the Cave being moved due to Reinforcements doesnt automatically prove why the cave is clearly a problem to begin with? It allows you to retake IBGY even when its lost to an infinitely higher degree than Alliance retaking SHGY due to us rezzing so much farther away.
The benefit of the cave reinforcing you still has the same benefit in Classic
a) this is not a competitive sporting event
b) if one side is trying as hard as they can while the other is giving up after the first issue, year, a 90% loss rate is absolutely possible.
Because it ONLY mattered when reinforcements made getting to Balinda first an issue. Otherwise horde were simply meeting alliance on their own turf in 1.12.
and the alliance cave allows alliance to retake SPGY to an infinitely higher degree. NEITHER of which are win conditions.
As does the alliance cave, ESPECIALLY when virtually across the best choke point in the game.
In any competitive game the issues with AV just wouldnât stand(and didnât when they became an issue originally). If one side always started with a pawn instead of a queen in chess noone would just say, play harder. If one side of a soccer court had a goal twice as big noone would say, just play harder. If one person always had an ace in their hand noone would say, just play harder.
Itâs not at all surprising alliance who actually care about winning avoid AV like the plague right now. And then go on to do just fine against those same super awesome horde in WSG/AB because for some reason map advantage isnât the same as player skill.
Except both sides arenât pulling from the same pool of players. We can, and in fact have, been able to point to the exact time when both sides ceased pulling from the same player pool. Premades. Initially Alliance had most of their most dedicated and a large percentage of best pvpers in premades. That alone limited the talent available on the Alliance side of the player pool for pugs. Then the premades were removed. Did those premade players rejoin the pool? No. They went to WSG leaving the vast majority of the inferior Alliance players to queue for AV against a Horde player pool that did not change. The only time the player pools are even remotely even is on AV weekend and, shock of all shocks, Alliance wins a lot higher percentage of games on AV weekend.
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Your entire argument is based on this premise and your premise is incorrect.
It wouldnât exist as a competitive outlet period. The mapâs features donât allow for even gameplay. This is exacerbated by the fact that 40 people join in random groups with large variations of classes, talented players, etc. AV is about as far away from competitive as they come.
Its a place where people from the same pool of players compete. Might as well be one but w/e not the point to focus on.
If one side has already tried as hard as they could even after the nerf to Premades, where clearly Alliance was raring to go since we had this high of winning constantly, you Horde maintaining that type of winrate right after premades were demolished cannot be due to motivation, since clearly the same type of players wouldâve still been there.
So a cave spawn which allows you to get to Alliance turf before us, which allowed you to outreinforce us, somehow magically doesnt apply to Classic AV? You are literally saying that Cave allowed you to outreinforce us. Which is exactly the same thing happening in Classic.
How the hell does our Cave being on the opposite side of SPGY become a benefit? Also, its completely irrelevant since you would have already taken 2 flags compared to our 1 in this scenario. A GY taken near our base, when we cant even attempt to take 1 of yours, is not remotely comparable. Apples to Oranges.
The Alliance cave does not help us to Reinforcement SHGY. The Alliance cave does not allow us to not have to care about not defending a GY due to how close proximity it is to it. Only horde does.
Again, not a competitive map, so attempting to compare it to how it would work in a competitive environment is silly and useless. The map needs changes. None of the reasons why the map needs changes has anything to do with making it so that âtwo top teams of 40 can go head to head in premade on premade action to prove once and for all who the baddest of the bad is.â
Basically, the Horde says that the Alterac Valley map favors Alliance, since Horde have to make it past the bridge chokepoint and the Stormpike graveyard is more secluded and defended than Frostwolf. The Alliance, on the other hand, blame the Hordeâs perennial losses on AFK people, a defeatist attitude, and a lack of defense, and note that Horde seemingly has no problems steamrolling Alliance in WSG and AB. In response, the Horde has issued a challenge for Blizzard to flip the AV map and see if the Hordeâs win-loss ratio doesnât turn around.
Very much aware of how reinforcements work. The cave before being moved back gave you an advantage of
Being closer to our side of the map than us to your.
Being able to prevent IBGY from being taken do to you guys not having to play defense at the start, since even if you lose the GY, you spawn right next to it to take it, which gives your offense more power than ours could ever have.
Both of these things are obviously still relevant in Classic.
The cave gave you an advantage that only get removed during BC.
