Bumping this suggestion once again.
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Bump it all we want, Blizzard isnât going to do a thing. Itâs been suggested since AV came out in Classic and apparently itâs fallen on deaf ears.
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Thread number 9047462937 of âwaaa we want free AV wins for allianceâ
The map isnât the issue.
Both horde and alliance have a GY protected by their cave Rez. In fact the alliance have two GY protected by the cave Rez because of how close to the GY their cave is.
And considering the only win conditions of AV is killing the last boss, having your super strong defensive position on the front end of your defenses or the back end doesnât make much of a difference.
Alliance complain a lot about how they get trapped north, yet they arenât using stealth teams, invisibility potions, exc to get south and they want to blame the âhorde map advantagesâ for them putting no effort in and losing.
Horde have to get past your 20 Rez cave mechanics to win, just like alliance have to get past hordes cave mechanics. Both teams face the same issue, but alliance have already given up by the time they would even need their 20 cave Rez mechanics because of their defeatist mentality. They donât send any stealth teams to deal with the shaman summoning. Heck even when the ice daddy is summoned a hunter knowing what he is doing can kite that guy into the alliance bunkers and jump out run into the other bunker and jump out. There is a pathing truck to it. But alliance donât even TRY. So itâs clearly the map instead of the lack of any real effort that is the issue with AV alliance right?
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No. Huge map disadvantage, which has been proven time and time again.
Thank Thrall we donât have to convince Redhead itâs a problem to get it changed.
Repeating that the sky is made of unicorn piss because the colors change and can have rainbows doesnât make it true no matter how many times you say it.
So saying âhorde map advantageâ endlessly still doesnât make that true either.
Alliance have map advantages that they arenât using, they are failing to use even the simplistic strategy of using a stealth team to disrupt supply chains, stop even effects like shaman summoning, they donât kite ice daddy at all and instead just face tank him on their healers, they rarely even use aoe on the bridge, and Iâm almost positive 90% of the alliance team donât even have the AV trinket. Yet itâs clearly the mapâŚ
There is no evidence that the sky is made of unicorn piss. There are however, multiple videos and factual evidence that horde have a giant map advantage in AV. Just because youâre too thick to understand (or just donât care to) doesnât mean its not true. Youâre wrong here, and there is no amount of trolling you can do to change it.
You forgot to mention Ram Team 7.
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Itâs not trolling to have a different view point on a subject, and all of those alleged videos only point out things horde have, ignoring what alliance have to paint the false picture of map imbalance.
Yes horde get to be the first attackers but alliance get the advantage of being the first defenders so they have a good amount of bonus damage from their defending NPC for the first clash. But thatâs never mentioned in those videos. Itâs never mentioned that the first clash letâs alliance start the fight with stealth teams to disrupt horde capture of the neutral GY and softcap hordes north most GY to disrupt the hordes supply chain of bodies to throw at the alliance as the alliance go for the neutral GY now to get a 20 Rez option by having two GY. It doesnât mention the neutral GY is closer to alliance southern most GY than it is to hordes northern most GY.
The problem with Alliance in AV is they are not using their advantages and only complaining about what horde have while they roll on their backs to submit to the horde.
This is made worse with the fact that on average, the horde that go into AV are better geared / skilled than alliance because of many factors, between the que times, HPH efficiency, ability to premade other BGs, exc that cause the better alliance players to not go into AV unless itâs AV weekend, where magically alliance start to win a lot more. My personal experience of AV weekend is alliance get up to about a 30% winrate on the games I get into on AV weekend, and Iâve seen similar evidence from other players. It would be a higher win rate for alliance on AV weekend if half their team wasnât going into the game with a defeatist mentality that has them focusing on rep over the win conditions.
Thatâs one of the NPC alliance get to benifit from on the initial clash doing damage/spell pushback to the horde because the initial clash happens in alliance territory, which means they have multiple defenders advantages.
But you will continue to ignore those facts.
Huge, Massive, none of these things have been remotely âprovenâ. The elephant in the room is 15 years of it not being an issue and now suddenly it is.
Massive, Huge,
GIANT
Still, no.
This is one of those things that I am amazed by.
As I mentioned elsewhere, at the beginning of the match I always stealth beeline directly to the alliance base, and keep the towers soft capped for as long as I can and as often as I can. From that vantage I see a LOT of what alliance does up north. I cannot remember even once since the back door was sealed up, alliance attempting an actual bridge defense. The most I see is one or two semi-afking honor sponges mounted in the middle of the bridge, facing SP.
Yep, itâs clearly the maps fault though, lol.
Edit: on a side note having 1-2 hunters stay back and keep flares up on that bridge to prevent the soft capping to begin with is something I did in vanilla (I was alliance then). And typically a stealth team of 3-5 would come in, and with only 1-2 hunters you would thing itâs impossible to defend it vs that. Until you realize you have an army of NPC behind you and all you need to do is throw serpent sting on them to prevent stealth and let the archers and other NPC pelt them to death.
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Either you didnât watch the video that was posted, or watched it and want to soap box your faction.
âthey rarely even use aoe on the bridgeâ
If weâre pushed to the bridge, we lost 15 minutes ago. There is zero chance we will recover. The best we can do is get a small team south to kill LTâs.
The bridge can be held with less than 20 alliance indefinitely if done right. Because you have a lot of NPC damage backing you up. The other 20 alliance can be on offensive pushes or even have some of them soft capping the GYs to disrupt horde pushes as when horde are trying to cross that bridge, itâs not uncommon for them to tunnel vision that until 1 stealth team has soft capped all of the horde towers and southern GYs.
The reason you have already lost at that point it because you have up, not because it was unwinnableâŚ
Edit: holding the bridge properly includes the stealth team breaking the ice daddy summon, just FYI.
I played AV through itâs entirety in vanilla and TBC. I do not need a biased video to instruct me on AV, but thanks.
Why are you waiting to defend your base until that point? I and others go to your base first thing, WHY are you not having a couple hunters or AOErs there to meet us? It is not a surprise tactic, but rather literally something that happens each and every game.
The best you can do is stop queueing AV so that alliance can get better team members.
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The video isnât biased at all. Guy starts at alliance cave and runs straight to SFGY. 1 minute and 28 seconds to get there. He then starts at the horde cave, one minute and 2 seconds to get there. The map advantage is huge.
Also, youâve shown on every post you have no idea what youâre talking about, your sole purpose is to argue against everything anti-horde you see without evidence. Your guild name suits you.
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RAM TEAM GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
SLAY ALL THAT INVADE
LET NONE SURVIVE!!!
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Disclaimer: not an expert. I played AV for the first time in the last 2 weeks but I played (ie lost) enough games to grind to Exalted Stormpike Guard.
In my grind to Exalted I have no idea how many matches I played but given I needed 42,000 rep and I probably averaged 300 a match (?), weâre talking about 140 matches. Best case 2 per hour that sounds roughly correct.
In that time I won 3 matches.
Now Alliance as a general rule sucks at AV. Like every time it starts and someone raid shouts âLetâs rush IBGYâ I know weâre going to lose. Exactly 1 of those 3 matches was a ârush IBGYâ strategy against a truly incompetent Horde PUG. The other two times, we split 4 groups to defend SHGY and 4 to cap SFGY before pushing to IBGY. This worked better but seemed to still rely on an incompetent Horde.
Turtling clearly doesnât work but itâs fun (Iâve often gotten 300+ HKs from a single match and Iâm not that geared) and you get Honor so people do it. The problem is that yes Horde seems better at grouping up and overwhelming a defense, no argument there, but also you can get flanked. And once Horde holds SHGY itâs pretty much over because itâs too easy to hold that choke point on the road up the hill from Icewind Pass.
Why not alternate starting sides? Weâll quickly figure out if one setup has the advantage. OPâs opinion is pretty reasonable: make the distance slightly longer for Horde because if everyone rushes youâre going to meet just passed SHGY and either get split (and lose) or try and defend SHGY (and lose) unless you get lucky and have a good Alliance premade or the Horde PUG just sucks.
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Misadventure and Redhead need to chillllll. Weâre talking to Blizzard here, not you guys. We donât have to convince you guys the map is the problem. Blizzard has the data and with P5 finally underway, I expect they will finally be doing the right thing and turning to this.
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