AV Cave Rez situation

Because I get tired of dealing with people who act entitled and refuse to accept simple facts that clearly show a horde bias to the map and even after it has been demonstrated to them countless times and all there falacious and false claims have been shown to be complete and utter nonsense they continue to spout nonsense and admit that the map is broken.

Some simple facts you refuse to accept:
IBGY closes GY is Horde cave which rez’s people at twice the rate of the nearest Ally GY which is 2x farthter away, so even if Ally softcap it the Horde lose nothing.

IBGY is at a very strong choke point that makes if difficult for Alliance to get any significant numbers south without controlling it. effectively making it impossible for Alliance to push to win without capping the GY if the horde are defending. while offering no flank for the Offense to use, instead it has a flank for the defenders to use to bypass an assaulting force or attack the backline.

SHGY once capped by the horde also has a strong northern choke, and has a large flank that allows a team to capitalize on the alliance pushing slightly forward.

If the Horde cap SHGY without the alliance controlling another southern GY they can effectively stop alliance from being able to respawn and can never lose a GY that would let them send waves of horde at any alliance south overwhelming them with numbers. The horde have no such weakness anywhere on the map.

Since the horde have a simple and basic strategy that essentially has no counter to control the map south of SH, they get free access to wolves and Lok to push north with and eventually break any stalemates.

Horde towers are in better locations to provide support to horde defensive locations than the alliance bunkers are.

the list goes on, but like I said its pretty easy for anyone to see that the map gives horde a VERY clear and VERY strong advantage.

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When have I?

Here are some quotes from me in this thread:

Yet you are calling me a liar, and hating on me.

Why? What is your problem with me? Can you quote something from me, and attack me based on that, rather than baseless claims? That’s scary! You are making things up and pretending that I am to blame!

What an incredibly mean person you are!

It makes perfect sense. What doesn’t make sense is, ‘A change made the game worse. Let’s do more changes!’

No, revert what they did or wait for TBC if you don’t like Vanilla AV map. It really is that simple.

Yes they do.
With an epic mount and full riding enchants + carrot you cannot reach SF before a Horde can cap the flag.

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Yeah, sorry! I was confused there.

(as an aside, I’ve also never rushed SFGY in Classic).

(I also didn’t watch the videos presented. I just assumed accuracy. And I certainly did not try to independently verify).

It would probably do even better than that. It was sub 40 minutes back before Blizzard made all these changes. Just reverting the current set of changes would probably help decently. Changing the cave rez? That would help a ton.

Want it even better? Randomize the starts. That would make a huge difference in the amount of alliance queuing up.

But do nothing and the current queues are going to just get worse.

Of course a change could help. You’re saying that literally every single change has no possibility of making the game better?

Does that sound at all reasonable to you?

Change isn’t bad, if the changes are well thought-out and tested. Those are the kind of changes we need. The entire Vanilla game was based on changes, 12 major and a ton of minor patches full of them. Classic being no changes is the unreasonable bit.

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Yeah, the changes already took place…15 years ago.

Changing Classic for good or bad is irrelevant, and also completely a personal opinion. So it’s wrong on two fronts: 1. It tosses aside the very reason Classic was created: as faithful a recreation to a specific time in WoW’s history as possible and 2. They will NEVER please everyone, or even anyone. All it will do is recreate another endless QQ fest of back and forths demanding an endless series of changes. There is no scenario in which this isn’t an utter disaster.

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They would never revert a balancing change.

They just chalk up stuff as an “exploit”. Then change it how they see fit.

Knowing they wont revert a change that shouldnt of even happened the next best thing is to just balance the map.

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Lost my first AV in a month an hour ago.

Horde had 2 healers total and were way too slow to attempt to defend. Alliance had a much larger number of healers. Only 5-10 horde were defending at IB GY for the first 3 minutes it was soft capped.

Alliance had a HK lead of 80 to 30 when IB GY was capped.

That’s basically what it takes for horde to lose. Kind of honest, just was an embarrassing game to lose knowing if we’d defended earlier, may have still taken IB GY back even losing so many fights…

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This is absolutely not accurate. The current character that I am playing AV with has a poverty mount and he doesn’t even clear IWB choke before the “horde assaulting snowfall graveyard” message pops up. Fast mounts get closer, but they don’t even to the ramp going up to SFGY before it is soft capped by horde.

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Well lets see you opened up claiming…

To which I stated

because there have been numerous threads on this topic that have provided this data, so at this point if you are claiming there is no data it is because you have either not looked or looked and discarded the evidence for some unknown reason.

Yet somehow despite your claims of lack of understanding you had the audacity to call me a liar about things that are factually accurate. So either you “know” enough about the map to call this a lie in which case you are being dishonest because you have decided to disregard information so you could keep your opinion that the map is balanced or you just called someone a liar for no reason because you do not have enough information to make that call. either way does not look good.

Then after telling you the information is out there and not hard to find, you start requesting me to do your searching for you because you don’t want to look for yourself.

seems pretty entitled to me…

So then I may have gone a bit far calling you dumb, because you called me a liar for stating things that are obvious to anyone who even looks at the map and how the game is played. These are not difficult conclusions to reach, hence some of my future comments.

you then proceed to ignore all the points I bring up and double down on calling me a liar, yet you still have not done any research of your own it seems so you should not be able to call anyone a liar.

Then you proceed to ignore 60% of one of my posts to say it doesn’t make sense because you left out the next 4 words and really makes you seem like you don’t know anything about AV so I point out that later point.

Then after ignoring most of what I say which clearly connects SH to SF, you claim I do not understand English, which I find ironic because this confusion stems from your inability to read a pretty short post…

While I may have escalated a bit quickly, I was not the one to start this.

So for that I am sorry, I do not feel like doing your research for you, but before you start calling people liars for making statements about the AV map… MAYBE just maybe start looking through some of the AV forums threads or look for some info on the map, because the advantages of the map are very easy to find.

If we rush we lose 95% of the time and why? Because the horde react slow to moving north. Also its a battleground that is meant for pvp. U know how boring retail av got by just rushing north to complete a pve objective?

I’m there for honor im there to slaughter the alliance. The map imbalance can be used as an excuse in less than a year it will be fixed and then the alliance will be making posts gloating about there win rate in av. Vanilla alliance won av most of the time on the current map.

Over the last 16 years it seems the horde have adapted to the map and the alliance just use it as a excuse 4 losses this weekend shows the alliance can win on this map if they actually try.

Oh and 1 of my losses was a rush game in which we didn’t take any towers and didn’t kill balinda and still loss. If u want tbe rush game tell blizzard to move Murgot and that out of the way of the aid station because the first 5 mins in the alliance base horde have to kill them and take out the archers from the bunkers.

I don’t need my case to be any stronger.

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oh look and all the people wanting change… live with it just like the players who don’t like the 30 instance cap have too.

Oh look at all the Horde who whined and whined about Alliance queue syncing and applauded the change.

Look at all the Horde who whined and whined about being cave camped and applauded the change.

But let’s not change where you spirit rez!

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They aren’t going to touch that which is very unfortunate. That should be in every single one of the BGs in both Classic and Retail (not sure whether it is in Retail as I haven’t done BGs there since before Cata).

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That’s asymmetric map 101. You’ll never get them completely balanced but if you randomize the starts at least everyone gets a chance to experience all sides of a map and the advantages are evened out.

It’s pretty damning proof that Blizzard is clueless on how to run things.

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And you would think with all the experience they have in SC / WC3, that they would have known this before the BGs were ever released.

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It more shows pvp was always intended to be a side game and not a serious consideration in the original design.

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