Usually alliance has more hks than horde because they stack and defend SHGY, SPGY and sometimes Aid Station. But it has nothing to do with the cave rez then.
Anyone else miss movie theaters?
I do.
It seems so small a thing, but, I miss going to the movies.
I miss even a whiff of rationality from many people. So many have thrown it out the window in their smug self-correct beliefs. We donât discuss things anymore, we shout them at people.
And movie theaters too.
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Maybe those alliance players should have actually done something strategic then because the games where I have seen things like that happen, they twiddled their thumbs at SHGY, never advanced, and then Ice Dad is what broke Horde through.
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Seriously, this whole âwe got 3x as many HKs as Horde did and still lostâ thing is among the stupidest arguments I see on here. If you did, it was your fault you lost because you clearly didnât take the steps needed to win. 3x as many HKs you should have no problem taking and holding SFGY. You should have no problem holding SHGY. Then you should have no problem wave attacking IBGY 20 rez to 20 rez and eventually overwhelm that as well. Seriously. If you had 350 HKs to 100 and lost, you sucked and I donât care how much better your overall HKs were at the end of the game.
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Thatâs not how rezs work, you just end up with 10 rezzing at SFGY instead SHGY vs 20 rezzing at the cave.
Itâs not that black and white. Iâve been in far too many games where alliance outplayed horde and still lost. We have to massively outplay horde to overcome all of the obstacles on the southern part of the map and even then, we can lose.
So no, out HKing horde and losing does not mean the alliance group sucked. It can also mean they outplayed horde by a large margin and still lost because of map flaws that make it that hard to win. Just because alliance killed horde 3:1 doesnât make them rez with the same advantages as horde. They still had to run from AS to support SFGY while horde ran from IBGY. 3 horde die and rez 30 seconds away and the one alliance who died rezzed over a minute away and alliance suck for not holding the gy?
If youâre whipping them at over a 3 to 1 ratio then you have no excuses.
Alliance have a tendency to quit on games - even when it looks like a winnable one.
Music festivals too.
I really want those back.
Completely disagree. If you are killing horde at a 3:1 rate, you can slow roll the SFGY capture. You will get it eventually. Then you can slow roll the IBGY capture. You will get it eventually. You will also hold it eventually. While doing this, you also negate any prayer that Horde get Ice Dad up and running. Straight up, if you are killing Horde at this clip, you have no excuse for not doing exactly this strategy because that is Scorched Earth Alliance style. You slowly push objectives south while keeping Horde from going north using SHGYâs choke.
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Like, I get what you are getting at here. There are games where Alliance is better, but not significantly enough to be able to make this strategy work. Those games usually come down to Ice Dad gets summoned and Treesus canât easily be summoned in response. Thatâs not fair and is something that should be changed.
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But thatâs not what I am responding to either. I am responding to a post spouting a loss with 3:1 kill ratios while pretending that Alliance did anything other than farm SHGY. Thatâs crap. 3:1 kills, you have all the time in the world to go take southern objectives and hold them.
That is exactly how Alliance are supposed to win that map. You have a disadvantage taking IBGY. No one is denying that (well, maybe not no one, but I am not denying that). But if you are trashing Horde to the point where 20 are rezzing in the cave and you hold both SFGY and SHGY, you can afford to send some from both spots to take IBGY, then wave attack it from both to hold it. This isnât a situation where Horde are mounting some offensive on SHGY. This is Alliance absolutely obliterating Horde. They need to play like it and take the slow advance approach you have earned by trashing us at a 3:1 clip.
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Dude that is just literally not rezzes work. If alliance have SFGY thatâs where theyâre rezzing when they die at IBGY. It doesnât spill over to SHGY.
Dude, you are ignoring one major point here. Remember that 3:1 kill ratio? You arenât all dying at IBGY. Not even close. You are slaughtering Horde there while reinforcing. Seriously. 3:1. The entire argument is trash. You all love mathematical arguments. Well, do the math. 3 Horde are dying for every 1 Alliance dying. Thatâs more Horde dying than the 2:1 reinforcement rate from the cave allows. Without even considering the strategic aspects that are being ignored with this argument, the math alone does not add up.
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It is a bad argument and it requires bad play to accomplish. Really bad play.
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Right and thatâs fine games where alliance just flat out out classes horde and can wipe them in the middle then kill them at 2 to 1 or greater ratio while IBGY caps are one way to win.
But I wasnât addressing that, alliance cannot rez at SHGY and SFGY while pressuring IBGY, they will rezz at SFGY.
Then you werenât addressing my post because I was addressing the situation where Alliance flat outclasses Horde. Or do you somehow think a 3:1 kill ratio favoring Alliance isnât indicative of severely outclassing Horde?
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Edit: Also, stop trying to derail my point by changing the scenario to something else my post isnât attempting to address. It is annoying and only makes you look like a troll.
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This is what you said,
But if you are trashing Horde to the point where 20 are rezzing in the cave and you hold both SFGY and SHGY, you can afford to send some from both spots to take IBGY, then wave attack it from both to hold it.
That is flat out wrong.
Iâm not disagreeing that when alliance get great team RNG they can win, thatâs always been the case. But saying that alliance can somehow rez at SHGY and SFGY at the same time and itâs somehow allianceâs fault they arenât is flat out wrong.
This is while fighting at IBGY, simply because horde rez twice a smany people than alliance at that GY. You need a minimum of 2-1 kill ratio at that graveyard to take it and allaince have a lot longer run time back to it from than horde do from the cave while getting twice as many people there. You clearly have never really played alliance AV.
Might want to reread what I said there. I am not saying they are rezzing at SHGY. I am saying that you can afford to send some of the players you had defending SHGY to IBGY. Couple of reasons for that. 1. Horde arenât rushing enough to SHGY to matter. 2. You have SFGY as a southern graveyard so you can now afford to be more aggressive with your offensive push. What does that all mean? It means you can get 25-30 at IBGY in waves. It means you are killing Horde at a 3:1 at IBGY meaning it takes bare minimum 75 horde to kill your 25 Alliance. If you are honestly trying to tell me that you canât take and hold IBGY with those rates while being able to wave rez 5-10 back from SFGY as Horde kill people there, then you suck. Period. End of discussion.
Math. You are killing them at 3:1 ratio. Read above to what that translates to. It takes almost 4 full waves of full Horde cave rezzes to overrun 25 Alliance that are killing Horde at a 3:1 ratio if Alliance get 25 to IBGYâŚwhich if you are playing it right, you 100% have. So no, donât give me this cave rez bull when you are slaughtering us. If you canât win that game, you sucked. Period.
Now do the math on eight rez cycles.
Iâm willing to bet the horde still come out in favor.
Alliance will get no reinforcements to IBGY for those 5 minutes.
So even if itâs 15 horde they will still kill three Alliance every rez cycle.
After just four cycles Alliance will be down to 13 players at IBGY.
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25 alliance rezzing in 10 man waves vs. 40 horde rezzing in 20 man waves. 3:1 A:H kill ratio right? Thatâs what you are suggesting right?
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First wave. 25 Alliance vs. 40 Horde. 3:1 says 21 Horde die and 7 Alliance die in that first encounter. That puts us at 18 Alliance at IBGY and 19 Horde there. Those 7 Alliance rez at SFGY while 20 Horde rez at the cave. During the time that Horde and Alliance are rezzing, Alliance kill all 19 of those Horde and lose another 6 Alliance.
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That leaves us with 12 Alliance at IBGY and 0 Horde there. Reinforcements show up. 7 Alliance and 20 Horde. We now have 20 Horde rezzing in the cave and 6 Alliance rezzing at SFGY. 19 Alliance fighting 20 Horde at IBGY. Alliance once again kill all 20 Horde and lose 7. They now have 12 at IBGY while Horde once again has zero.
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This is how 3:1 ratios work. You are absolutely CRUSHING us there. CRUSHING. There will never be a point where Horde overruns that location again based on a 3:1 kill ratio while Alliance owns SFGY. Ever. Thatâs the math.
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You guys want to argue with me about 2:1 ratios I will concede and say thatâs where things get interesting. But when you are talking 3:1 kill ratios, thatâs where you lose me. If you are losing the reinforcement battle when you are that much better, you deserved to lose.
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Edit: And because someone will inevitably quibble with my first 21:7 ratio, it is actually worse for Horde if I extrapolate it out to 40:14. That leaves 11 Alliance at IBGY, 0 Horde, 20 Horde rezzing, 10 Alliance rezzing. Gives us 21 Alliance holding IBGY against 20 Horde coming in. 3:1, thatâs a wipe out. A hard wipe out.
Except 5 minute queues beat this strategy hands-down. Unless you get a group that just doesnât care about rep or honor or any of that, thereâs just no good reward for alliance in playing a slow grind AV, other than bragging rights.
But yeah, if youâre so overpowered that you can beat the horde 3:1 then you can slowly win AV.
No, I was suggesting that alliance have IBGY soft capped, which is how the fight actually happen, letâs be realistic.
We trade SHGY for Ibgy, we soft cap ibgy, we now have to survive for 5 minutes to get any Rez from IBGY.
Math that out, heck I will even throw you a bone and say 30 alliance are at IBGY.
Say 20 horde go back, which they clearly do from the multiple screenshots of it here.
Go ahead and math out your 3:1 ratio.
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