No. You don’t understand. We do what you say and 30 Horde will zug zug north like idiots and you will win the race because the 10 who recall won’t stop you. That is literally how it will go.
If horde choose to make it a zerg, but then that’s a horde choice, not some brilliant alliance strategy that forces horde to play that way.
And the alliance team getting lucky with team RNG is one of the few ways alliance win.
Also who said anything about recalling? Horde have plenty of time to swing back south with enough to mess up the zerg after soft capping SHGY. These aren’t the premade days where full premades could rush to drek and solo pull him.
Who described it as a brilliant strategy? I am telling you how it would go. I am also telling you why 40 to SHGY literally will never happen. Ever. So stop saying it because it is ignorant and makes you come off as completely obtuse.
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I read you carefully but just like Redheadchild, I don’t agree with your first assumption. Alliance does not have to trade SHGY for IBGY. Quite the contrary you have to push back horde to IBGY and not trade SHGY. If alliance can’t do it, it’s because horde is the better stack. Usually, horde is the better stack cause rankers left and alliance think they can’t win so they play defense and reputation grind and it’s a conundrum.
Now, if we accept you are trying the SHGY - IBGY trade anyway, let’s see. Alliance soft cap IBGY while Horde soft cap SHGY. Normally, in that scenario, alliance should not be able to reinforce SHGY because horde soft cappers at SHGY will stop them. But it’s fair since it’s a mirror effect. Alliance soft cappers at IBGY can do just the same by using IBGY choke which is very effective too if you know how to use it. In your soft cap scenario, no factions should hope for reinforcements. First, the path is very long for both faction (I still need to time it though). Second, each chokes should prevent opposite faction to pass. Third, rezzers, either alliances at SPGY or hordes at cave should try to recap their respective graveyards since they should know each choke will just destroy them if they try to pass.
You’re are saying the horde cave is non-capturable, but even if alliance captured it, hordes will rezzed to FWGY which is 2 seconds faster to reach IBGY than rezzing at cave (cause you can mount right when you rez at FWGY). I know it’s sound weird but that’s the reality, I timed it. The source of 20 in cave almost never applies, especially in the scenario where each factions soft capped IBGY-SHGY.
Tell me, how many time did you wait to rez at SPGY because the rez cycle of 10 prevented it ? It almost never happens in my experience. Also, when horde captures SHGY, it takes time before they capture SPGY so that’s not really a problem if it’s capturable or not.
I think it does, cause if it wasn’t the cave, hordes would respawn at FWGY which is even closer to IBGY. And if alliance soft cap or even hard cap IBGY, they don’t cap FWGY at once. It takes time. Just like it takes time to horde to cap SPGY when they capped SHGY.
Anyway I do appreciate someone able to discuss without insulting and make personal attacks like too much people in this thread do.
Yeah this is why I also agreed with Drinknblink that in realistic gaming conditions, it usually winds up being a trade. Alliance has to give it their all into taking IB GY. Or SF GY. Or charge straight to relief hut…or basically anything else other than sit SH GY.
Fayld is right about this. It might very well not work out. But if we all sit at SH GY it is for sure a loss; it’s only a matter of time. So we have to do something else.
The way we play it is to try not to trade. We have sweaty ranker defense team holding SH GY at all costs while everyone else push another objective, whether that be IB GY or SF GY. Our Grand Marshal hunter is part of this defense team. As members of our push team gets killed, they get sent back to SH GY and that might free us up to go guerrilla tactic (happy Redheadchild??) SF GY.
But that’s where I see the map imbalances come into play, right? That we have to do all this and victory is still far from assured. I actually win more AV than I lose playing with my team, and what I have seen is that if we lose our hardcap on SH GY, and we don’t have any other southern GY at least soft capped, game is done. Even with us sweaty rankers leading pushes. We are all chugging potions on CD, dropping sapper charges, and the lock that often runs with us has on a Flask of Supreme Power every time. Like I’m not sure how much more tryhard we can be…and it’s still a brick wall… against a mishmash horde team of level 55s, scouts, and grunts.
Such is not the case with Horde. If they lose their hardcap on IB GY, even if they don’t have any northern GY softcapped, game is far from over for them. That’s where I see the map issues come into play.
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And it simply doesn’t go that way unless horde choose to make it a zerg. Which is once again a horde choice. What is far far more common is that horde will soft cap SHGY, then send enough back that alliance eventually get wiped south.
Once again this is not the premade days anymore where the top premades could rush straight to drek and solo pull him.
And we keep telling you they do not work because it just makes the map advantages that horde have even stronger.
You are right it doesn’t go this way. Because we intercept. So stop talking about 40 to SHGY like it literally ever happens. It doesn’t. Thanks.
Drinknblink : you can’t even admit it takes 40 seconds from horde rezzing in cave to reach IBGY so
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Horde are seldom doing full 40 to intercept. They don’t need to, just as they don’t need to slam 40 into SHGY. What they are doing is pressure on SHGY with some harassing any alliance trying to push south.
It doesn’t matter if that push south is to IBGY or Drek, the same strat applies for horde.
Again. Reading. I said we do roughly 25 to intercept. If you don’t believe me, feel free to read above.
And guess what those other 15 are at SHGY, reading comprehension.
Easily defended by 10 at SHGY what now? Please. Go on. Tell me how I don’t know exactly what I am talking about while you keep bringing up inane and trash points like “but they can just send 40 to SHGY.”
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You still have yet to show this to be true…
Cause 28+12 = 40 but that 28 already includes part of that 12 so no it doesn’t take that long
I agree with that. I am pretty surprised Blizzard fixed tons of smaller issues a few months ago and not these.
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Are you kidding ? Check the video, it starts at the gate. After the start, hordes rez 12 seconds behind the gate. Just like alliance in their cave. Go check.
Horde que times were at minimum 20 minutes after the initial rush to 60 was completed by more than the sweatiest of neck beards.
They were never shorter than what alliance had at any point even now the alliance ques are shorter than the shortest ques horde every had.
It caused a difference from day one. Alliance were willing to afk out of a loss if it looked like it would take longer than the deserter debuff to lose.
Horde would do the same except add que time into that deserter debuff wait.
The que times impact behavior even if you don’t want to admit it.
All I can say is, I play AV every night. Probably play again tonight. I didn’t time anything because I’m too busy healbotting my Field Marshal warrior friend tanking all the horde, but my feet-on-the-ground experience is that the Horde cave res absolutely does matter.
More than 10 res out of there all the time. If we’ve successfully softcapped IB GY, then that means everybody we kill up north at SF gy, at SH gy, and at IB gy all get sent back there to the cave. So it could easily be 20 at a time coming back. When that happens we often have to reset and repush because we get overwhelmed and wiped at IB GY and have to do a do-over.
I can just tell you I would much much rather they come out of FW GY even if it is really closer to IB GY than the cave. Heck put it right under Iceblood Tower for all I care. Because then they would only come 10 at a time.
This is our mantra when defending SH GY: “Kill one by one. They are not ressing here. Send them back to IB when they can only come back 10 at a time.”
The cave res matters.
P.S. Actually yes if the push team encounters harsh resistance, which is pretty often, I or another member of my team have to wait for second waves of resses at a gy. At SH gy I would say that happens almost every game.
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You are making me want to play AV just so I have a shot at playing against you. Your group sounds like a riot! I would love those games!
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It doesn’t take 40 seconds.
Plenty of evidence my man, stop trying to troll.
Just watched another video of a paladin showing it all off.
He starts behind where the horde gate would be he is out of the gate and mounted in 5 seconds he is at IBGY in 28.18 seconds.
Video is called" do horde have an advantage in AV #1"