I wholeheartedly agree. Someone earlier commented that they should add a monk support spec and that it would give “some buff” and that the “possibilities are numerous.” However, the reality is that it is all limited and I don’t believe anyone here knows what adding more support specs would do without overlapping each other.
I do also agree that Aug should only buff dps specs. That’s it. No shield buffs no tank/healer help, just dps. Albeit, then I wonder if it is still better to bring an Aug over a regular dps and that’s what I feel like Aug players are worried about. They’ve been Kings at the top for so long I can’t imagine what the player base would like once they’re no longer up there in ranking. Give 'em the feral druid treatment.
You would want them to restructure and redo everything for a hypothetical idea that might work? Que times are already long enough as it is. I can’t imagine what it would look like after making support a mandatory slot you have to fill. Have you also thought about the pvp implications? On top of that, the vast player base play dps. You’ve basically reduced their chances to get into pugs by 1/3. What if it doesn’t work? What then? Do they just restructure it back after players stop playing? Why break something that’s been working for decades longer than one spec has been around?
Imagine if Aug was a tank spec? Imagine if Aug was a 2-handed melee spec? Imagine how many people wouldn’t even miss Aug as support? We can all imagine Aug not being a thing as well. Great things to imagine.
As it stands right now, and you can look this up if you want, after the tank nerfs, Augs are going to be back on the menu as Kings for Season 1 in TWW. Having Augs as a support specs that buffs survivability is putting all other classes that don’t play well with Aug in a hole.
Like I mentioned this then makes Team B or Team C more enticing, theirs more options for supports so then it creates a larger pool of different team compositions.
Currently Augmentation has the monopoly of being the only support spec available which is amazing if you are an Aug Main, you’ll always be desired/needed but feels absolutely like rubbish playing Devastation or Preservation as once the group has an Aug theirs simply zero need for either. Aug alone brings everything the other 2 specs bring and simply more.
More support specs create more variety in team compositions, especially considering how much a support spec brings and survivability it’s always going to be considered over the 2 other specs.
The only downside which I think would be an issue that’s really never been perfect is Tuning.
It really feels like you’re just moving the goalpost. If the aim by adding more support spec is to allow Pres & Dev to shine outside the shadow of Aug, you will definitely achieve that by adding more.
However, you now have other specs in the shadow of their new respective support spec. You’ve now gone full circle, but now it’s a different class’s problem.
Support Spec(s), Aug currently, are either strong or very weak. If they’re strong, then they’re busted and everyone wants them. If they’re weak, however, then why bother bringing one over a regular dps class.
I don’t believe just adding more for the sake of just having pres & Dev shine outside the of the shadow of their oppressive other spec is the answer.
They’ll never rightfully tune/balance all of those support specs. They can’t do it with one currently, and that one support spec has been flavor of the month for several months … possibly leading into TWW as well.
I’m not trying to move the goal post, I’m saying one spec literally having the monopoly of being a support is something that needs to be addressed. And yes, it’s completely unfair due to Augmentation literally bringing the exact same as Dev/Pres utility and buffs and then ontop bringing added defensives, which is highly desirable in most PvE content be it progression in Raid, Mythic +, or Mythic Raiding.
While I suggest adding more supports to essentially bring more team variety and compositions as an alternative solution, which personally I think is a healthier way without adding much disruption.
But I do agree and why I mentioned it, tuning though would be an issue, like you’ve mentioned if they are under tuned no one would bring them, but currently due to the fact their is only one support class regardless Dev/Pres is constantly going to be looked over no matter what. We don’t have an alternative option it’s either play Aug or continue to be looked over.
What would you suggest to alleviate this issue to help Dev/Pres be more desirable?.
I’ll be honest the amount of times I been asked to switch to Aug or can I play Aug gets tiring.
Originally I thought maybe adding a Brez to Pres, unsure about Dev, maybe removing Lust from Aug?.
Even with substantial nerfs they are still a priority in most PvE content…
I can’t speak about PvP, best I can give is an insight of the nicest floor of each arena when I’m dead.
Remove all benefits provided to healers & Tanks by Augs (Essentially remove all healer/tank aspect of the spec). Make them buff only dps. They bring dmg to the table. How? By buffing others up. That’s it. They can do a little bit dmg.
Note: This nerf alone would hard stop Aug from being near mandatory to have in high-end/carry me settings. They bring so much survivability to the group that reducing it goes a long long way.
Preservation changes
(One of the two reasons Max said Evokers were brought to raids in an earlier video before Aug was a thing was because of Cauterize and the second was rescue shield.)
Allow Cauterize to benefit from echo. You can cauterize up to as many targets as you can echo.
Note: I would have doing this increase the cooldown of Cauterize by “X” amount per cauterized echoed targets with a cap of “Y” minutes. Still good but not broken.
Increase the range of all spells to 40 yards.
Note: Players who chose to play a range class (that hunter that plays in Narnia range, for example) shouldn’t be handicapped/negatively impacted because their healer is an evoker.
Alleviate some of the mandatory group healing. Add a talent that allows either dream breath or emerald blossom to spawn dream projectiles that seek out low health allies.
Note: With all the spread mechanics we have in-game and soon to come, it makes it hard to bring a healer that best heals when the group is clumped up. Adding more variety to the talent tree to ease this would go a long way.
Devastation Changes
Increase the range of all spells to 40 yards.
Note: Raid mechanics (and some dungeons) are either targeted at range or done by them. With that said, 25-30 yards is not enough to justify calling a spec “range” at all. Additionally, Blizzard has, to some extent, forgotten the limitations of evokers. This evident on the Nymue fight, for instance.
New talent: [Volcanic Empowerment] While Dragonrage is active, the Devastation Evoker superheats the air and debris around them, empowering their abilities and their allies’ damage to deal additional volcanic damage over time, equal to “X”% of the damage dealt.
Note: Adding a buff to the group when you press your cd could provide a nice incentive to bring dev. Nothing too crazy just a nice buff addition to the Spec.
Additional note: I decided to scrap this idea. I realized that this could potentially lead to some degenerate levels of playstyle where the dev players could be told to hold their cds for another class. This does not seem fun at all. I left it in because it was a thought. Could change it so it activates when essence burst procs?
Additional additional note: Combustion provides other players with a small crit buff and no one makes them play any differently. Granted, combustion cd can be lowered under it’s 2 min cd, so perhaps maybe have a way to do so for Dragonrage as well?
New talent: [Wyrm’s Embrace] While Renewing Blaze is active, all overhealing done to you and your party or raid members is converted into a heal over time effect on the respective target. (This new talent would also increase the CD of Renewing Blaze to be more in line with Darkness and Rallying Cry.)
Note: This talent would provide a strong raid and dungeon cooldown, making Devastation Evokers more enticing to bring along. Additionally, since Devastation is the only Evoker spec that primarily uses red dragonflight magic, this talent thematically fits the spec well.
Guaranteed Raid/Dungeon spot for Evoker Change (possibly)
Reworked Party/Raid Buff:
New Blessing of Bronze
Party and raid members within 40 yards are enveloped in the flow of time, causing 3% of the damage they would take to instead be dealt over 8 seconds.
Note: This seems like a really strong raid (and possibly dungeon) buff. Additionally, I also like the idea of altering time to provide a better benefit than what is currently offered. However, the downside would be an almost mandatory evoker raid spot I believe.
Additional Note: This raid buff would also work well with the new talent I propose, Wyrm’s Embrace. Since any overhealing would be turned into a hot while Renewing Blaze is active and a % of all dmg taken is turned into a dot, the two would go well together.
Preservation: New Blessing of the Bronze talents
Chrono Shift:
Increases the percentage of damage delayed by Blessing of Bronze to “X”%.
Note: This is essentially the “We have Aura mastery at home” meme and I’m okay with it.
Temporal Convergence:
When Blessing of Bronze is active, the Evoker can activate Temporal Convergence to reroute all delayed damage from Blessing of Bronze to a single target of their choosing for the duration of the effect. This ability has a 2-minute cooldown.
Note: You can redirect all dmg to the tank. Or that one dps out in Narnia and later pad the healing meters. Your choice. It would make for a strong raid/party c/d.
Timebound Swiftness:
When Blessing of Bronze is active, allies’ movement speed is increased by 5-10%.
Note: It’s a raid buff on wheels. Why not?
tl;dr:(Cliffnotes)
Devastation (New raid cooldown)
Wyrm’s Embrace: While Renewing Blaze is active, all overhealing done to you and your party or raid members is converted into a heal over time effect on the respective target. (This new talent would also increase the CD of Renewing Blaze to be more in line with Darkness and Rallying Cry.)
Aug Nerf:
They don’t do anything aside from buff dps. No more increase in survivability. Just pure buff dps only.
Preservation buff:
Cauterize now works with echo. Who needs dwarves when you can cauterize the bleed away? How many bleeds can you cleanse? Yes.
Reworked raid buff (New Blessing of the Bronze)
Party and raid members within 40 yards are enveloped in the flow of time, causing 3% of the damage they would take to instead be dealt over 8 seconds.
Note: These are just the highlights. Please feel free to read the rest.
That sucks. Sorry to hear that. I mostly heal, so I can’t say it’s the same. Healers are on short supply. That said, I don’t see myself healing on evoker unless they increase the range.
It’s tilting casting an empowered spell only to have a dps take one step to the left and be out of range. They die and I get flamed. Although I do get it. They didn’t sign up for shorter range and I hate only going with melee groups. Melee comps tend to zug zug 90% of the time. What are mechanics?
Perhaps you’ve seen my melee group comps before then?
To be fair, this is mainly a community perception issue. I’ve not been asked to spec aug once in any of my keys, but I recognize that’s purely anecdotal and it sucks that you’ve had a different experience.
Outside of higher keys (15+) and a few raid encounters at mythic difficulty, having a dev is significantly better than having an Aug.
Unless I’m just misreading the context because I haven’t had coffee yet which is a thing that could be happening, in which case I apologize and please feel free to course-correct.
totally agree on this . people just watch streamers and repeat what they hear . world first mythic raiders bring two aug evokers and everyone is crying . I never see any aug evoker in any content i have done this season lol
I agree but not in the same way as a lot of people posting here. I feel like support style was a natural evolution for healers or even just some healing specs. I am a healer myself, and Aug seems like it really shouldve been an alternate kind of healer spec, not dps. DPS will never change away from “who is topping the bars”, and the fact that they tried to muddy that was awful. Meanwhile, healers were becoming less, and less important with the spiky damage of dungeons. Aug really did mess a lot up, but it mostly made healing a lot less important. Sure its nice to have an Aug with me, I find damage spikes are less crazy. But I feel im making a lot less of an impact on the group.
At least you’re self-aware. I’d also be okay with it, however.
Interesting, but feels too much like what happened with enhancement shaman. You brought one of b/c of the party buff they brought to the group. Though I don’t know how well they’ll do now since it got turned into a class raid buff … so who knows.
It’s literally dev with a some new icons for spells and one or two extra buttons. I also wondering how much you’ll “enjoy” it once it’s not S-tier.
You are basically reducing the chance of dps players to get into keys by 33%. Additionally, that would also mean that 1/3 dps would enjoy playing a support role.
Most of the classes and/or specs aren’t S-Tier, so it won’t change a thing.
In 90% of keys, Aug isn’t S-Tier anyway. In fact, in the majority of keys played by the playerbase, aug is a detriment over playing Dev.
The defensive bonuses are worthless because almost everything isn’t dangerous enough to kill you, even without defensives up to about 9s-10s in current content, and the DPS they output or can contribute is negligible and bringing another dps would, make the key faster and easier
Maybe play tank or healer if you can? OR reroll to any DPS spec that is meta to increase your chances!
Oh, but thats not what you enjoy and thats more important?
Tell me again how that only applies to you and not the Aug players, or the others that want to play support specs?
Playing a tank or healer is a completely different playstyle to dps. The only real difference between Aug and a dps is the buffing thing which, honestly is pretty boring and is the lowest hanging fruit when it comes to support gameplay. If an Aug player couldn’t play Aug, they could still go Devastation which still is loaded with utility to take.
There are so many classes and specs with utility, I’m flabbergasted anybody desires a ‘support spec’ cause we’ve had them for years in spades. The big issue is Aug has so much utility, and most of it being automatic, that it makes it too useful. So useful its pointless in low keys, and a must need for high keys. But the majority of people who like it don’t run high keys, but because of its design its practically useless in the hands of the people its supposed to be for.
And if more supports get added, other dps are gonna lose utility to justify their existence. I don’t want the game going in a direction where if I want to have utility I have to play support - thats not the RPG I signed up for, thats not the gameplay I’m here for.
So while I feel bad for those who like Aug, personally I never ever ever want anything like Aug ever again.
Not worth feeding this clown. This guy doesn’t do anything above 10s-- Aug literally doesn’t create a “permanent DPS slot taken” until well above the content he does.
He’s just a troll that keeps repeating the same points for attention.
I was referring to how everyone keeps mentioning breaking the Holy Trinity (Tank, Healer, & DPS) and adding support role. In which case, you would need 1 tank, 1 healer, 2 dps, and 1 support.
This keeps getting suggested but they don’t take into account how they are reducing the spots for a dps player by 33%.
Que times are a huge concern. Not everyone wants to play healer or tank. Most players want to dps which is why Blizzard has a few incentives in place for those roles. Now, imagine adding a support role to the mix. This means that if you have a group of 20 dps players, then 1/3 those players must enjoy playing support. I doubt it. That’s roughly 7 players. Players like to Zug zug. Ques times would be horrendous. This would affect everyone.
You have no idea what I do. Feel free to speculate. I’m not 100% on the forum like you do.
So you do agree it is a problem? Additionally, a good Aug can make a lower keys smoother/easier. Players ALWAYS look for the easy route which is why you FOTM players.
I’ll be sure to echo this points when Aug gets nerfed again. GL in TWW.
EDIT: Seems I was nor very smart and replied to wrong comment
Everyone isn’t mentioning this. Hyperbolic.
OK so even IF everyone was mentioning breaking the holy trinity (they aren’t) Do you think there aren’t DPS players that are swapping to Aug?
Again, Aug isn’t required until way harder content. This isn’t even unique to Aug, there are other specs (Veng, Mage, a druid) that come to mind as well.
If supports are tagged as DPS it wont change queue times at all. On top of that, Queued content (as in Normal, Heroic dungeons, LFR) is kinda…irrelevant, and what…7 minutes average for dungeons as DPS and a bit longer for LFR?
Those are held up by tanks and heals. Which…adding more tank and healing specs don’t generally move queue times down, because tank and healers are pretty constant. FFXIV devs pointed this out after adding a new tank and healer. New players would try them and go back to whatever else they enjoyed instead of sticking with it, and the old tanks/healers would just play whatever was strongest.
I’m not gonna respond to the other parts of your queue/player count argument because this should answer for those as well. I did read them however.
Sure, but i was more pointing out not only can you re-roll to a better (S-Tier) spec, but also tank or heal.
But you also believe YOUR want to play DPS is more important than another persons want to play Aug (which is slotted as a DPS already).
And your solution seems to be ‘nerf it into irrelevance or just delete’, so your chosen spec or class can have a chance to take their spot. Still not a good solution.
My speculation is about the same as his. You are hiding behind a level 10 Forum alt.
A good insert spec here can make lower keys easier/smoother, thats just called being a good player
However Aug actively slows lower keys down over having another DPS. There isn’t a need to interrupt/defensive everything.
My 480 holy priest was surviving the harder hitting things last week in the 5-8 range of keys.
The DPS Aug bring is low, and the buffs are to the DPS simply do not outshine the capability of just bringing another DPS.
I will agree with you here it is hyperbolic and meant “majority” of the players that want support role to be a thing. This is probably the only thing we agree on and that’s okay.
If you believe that 33% of the wow player that plays dps wants to be support, then I have some timeshares down by the Florida Keys I can sell you.
NEVER said it was.
Aug is the only support spec in-game, so it is “unique” to Aug. As long as Aug provides all that utility and more a small % nerf is not going do a thing about players wanting them in raids or dungeons. The community perception is too strong. You can yell from across the rooftop that players do not need one and most players will take one over your spec any day.
What’s stopping players from stacking them? How would they balance around that? What would they bring to the table? More defensive benefits? Healer buffs? If it’s just “only” buffing dps, what’s stopping them from finding that one dps that synergizes well from breaking the game by having two supports buffing that one spec?
Who said anything about LFR? That content doesn’t matter at all and que times are long because most players only run it for mog after some time.
Who said anything about heroic dungeons? They get outgeared relatively fast into an expansion.
WOW and FFXIV are not the same. Never will. You cannot compare the two. FFXIV has a job system and you basically be anything you want on one character. Where’s the identity in that?
Can’t comment on that game since I’ve never played, but the same thing happens in wow when a new class is released. Players will always gravitate to what is familiar which is why I “personally” do not believe supports will work.
LOL. I don’t have much time to play which is why I play a tank or a healer nowadays, but good try though. You can’t beat instant ques and quick invites.
The best Aug players are usually healer mains.
With this in mind, a regular dps player would not use Aug to its full potential because often times they believe that pressing only the c/ds is enough without thinking about the utility that Aug brings.
Players already don’t like tanking because it requires “too much” of them in M+. A support role is basically the same thing. It’s a leaders job. It’s more than just buff you and then you and you etc. You have to dispel, use rescue shield, know when to use c/ds, etc. Too much for regular player that just wants to chill and support from the back.
Provide an alternative. These are the most often repeated ideologies on fixing the spec.
A) Nerf it so it only provides a dps buff to dps (no survivability or healer benefits)
B) Turn it into a melee 2-handed spec (reworking the spec)
C) Turn it into a tank spec
D) Add more support specs and “HOPE” it fixes the issue.
That’s cool. Speculate away. I’m sure you can dig deep if you wanted via achieves or something.
I probably do the same content as you (maybe more), but does having mythic achievements or high I.O. really make my stance stronger than someone else who doesn’t? Seems elitist. You are basically saying the game is catered to the 1% is we are playing their game.
I think you meant to type “player” here instead of spec.
People do not bring Aug for its dps. LOL.
I can see we will never agree on this matter. With that said, have a great one and I’ll wait till Augs get nerfed again to lol on this post. Toodaloo.
If YOU believe that this is effecting Queue times in any meaningful way, IDK what to tell you.
They are still a ‘dps’ slot, and thus even if it DIDNT exist, another would just fill its place anyway.
It is unique to aug, if you read the actual rest opf what I said, and the examples given instead of skipping it, you might understnad.
There is not a reason TO stack them because they are weak in DPS, can’t tank and their healing is well…less than most hy
They already have. To be effective in any form of relevant content, you need stronger DPS players. You know, since its a support. Thats such a silly question to ask, and even bringing that up is…laughable.
There isn’t, just like there really isn’t a reason you cant bring two of the strongest DPS and just leave out other classes/specs? Wait it does already happen sometimes? Guess the game is broken then?
You did with your silly queue time argument. Do I need to go back and quote your own comment? If you worry about queue times, but the queue times are low and the content is irrelevant anyway, what is the worry here?
This is a form of ‘queueable’ content. Everything else (Raids, Mythics/+ those are group content, but you can’t random queue for them, you make groups.
They are both MMOs, both use the holy trinity, both have short queue times for tanks and healers because…drum roll…they have the same issue, people simply don’t want to tank and heal. You even pointed out most people just want to zug zug dps.
I’m starting to agree with Arcade, you might be a troll.
OK, so none of this effects you, imagine that.
Source? Or just your intuition?
Leave it alone. Thats teh alternative. Yes, do changes to some balance but the absolute vast majority of the playerbase is not messed with by the existence of Aug in its current form. I don’t even like the spec, but its hate is unfounded
Don’t need to, don’t want to.
You might, but you still create and use a level 10 alt to post comments.
Actually, yes. Because if you actually played content where you may actually have to rely on Augs existence to continue to do said content, I might actually take what you say a bit more seriously. The spec isn’t ‘required’.
You are already trying to get aug tuned based upon the 1% do you not see the irony? It is basically worthless in low end content already. Bring a Dev he will do more for the group.
Nope, I meant spec. Any well played spec can make runs easier. And I added the whole player part at the end of the sentence…that you skipped over or failed to read.
LOL. So how many of those timeshares do you want? Of course they’ll affect que times you silly goose. Now, will your parents be co-signing with you?
There’s so much self-inflated grandeur in your comments it is hard to read. I’ll give it go one more time, just in case.
See, yup, right there. You were talking about “Augs” and I mentioned the holy trinity. You said, well, you can read it (hopefully, you wrote it). “Do you think there aren’t DPS players that are swapping to Aug?”
Aug is a “SUPPORT SPEC”
There is only one in the game.
Definition of the word "UNIQUE"
being the only one of its kind; unlike anything else.
I’ll copy and paste below what I said, please let me know where I lost you.
Which word or phrase do you need help with?
If you classified support specs as dps, and you can currently bring 3 dps to dungeon or 6dps to a 10 man raid( I chose a small number for you. I’m being considerate since mythic raids have more dps in them.), what is stopping them from stacking? Currently in raid/Dungeons Blizzard has made it so that Aug buffs don’t overlap. This makes it so that you have 2 Augs in raid for optimal performance with buffs and 1 in dungeons.
Now, please do keep up. If we go your route, then that would mean that you can bring hypothetically 3 support specs. I’m not saying that is optimal but doable in a world where Support specs are just dps. Hypothetically (in this will happen), the wow community will find the two best support specs that best boost the group and make one spec OP.
Congratulations you created the Aug dilemma 2.0 electric boogaloo now with more support.
However, if Blizzard implements a no buff stack system like they have now, then why bring more than one support spec to a dungeon or two at most for a 20 man mythic?
That’s a lot of dead support specs in the water. I’m sure you’ll tell me how to fix this. You seem quite bright. 9+10 does not = 21, fyi.
I’m so silly. I’ve noticed you haven’t played much this season, so I’m inclined to believe you might be rather casual. How would they balance it compared to a casual player like you? If they balance it with players like you in mind, then the high-end players will make the support spec overpowered.
However, if they balance it around the high-end players, how would you play the support spec if it dogwater?
LOL. Silly of me to believe that you’ve waited in the Looking for group for Mythic plus dungeons waiting for a healer or tank to show up. Of course you’ve thought I meant LFR and heroic dungeons. I’m sorry but I don’t need that type of gear. I can run you through some heroics dungeons if you want.
Apples and oranges are both fruits. What’s your point? They are not the same even though they both fall under the same category. I’m sure you know that. Elementary level learning.
You’re using a point I used to argue why support specs would not work (e.g. players just zug zug all the time) as a reason to justify FFXIV being compared to WOW?
Can I please sign you up for some life insurance and I have set of Kitchen knives you can sell in a “chain referral system” if you want?
Tanks literally just got nerfed. What are you even on about?
Any WoW podcast on Aug nerfs or tank nerfs. Poddyc or The benc, etc. Take your pick. You can also look up articles, but I’m having a hard time believing reading is your forte.
Do they leave it alone? Or do they change it? Pick one. Too late here comes Blizzard to balance it again in the near future. Whack
Blizzard stop, it’s okay. Combatmatt said it was. Blizzard at it again. Whack
Oh no, it’s a dps spec now. LOL
The class has been FOTM since it’s inception. Where have you been? Players just want it to be bad for a few patches. Just let it bleed out. Whack
Who gave Blizzard the nerf stick again?
I literally said speculate away.
Definition of Speculate
form a theory or conjecture about a subject without firm evidence.
You do realize this game is not hard. It is a, wait for it, GAME. By it’s design it is meant to be beaten. The hardest boss in this game is the attendance boss. Aug players are everywhere, btw, I’m sure you would know you’ve played some season in Dragonflight. I’m sure of it.
Please don’t use word you don’t know the meaning of. Additionally, I NEVER said to tune it around the 1%. GO back and reread. I’m too tired to make this easy for you to read.
Well, the phrased coined by Ion (and many others) is bring the player… etc. I’m sure that’s what you were aiming for but okay.
Listen. I normally put something nice here but I feel like my I.Q. may be dropping the more I interact with you. Here’s my two cents and then I hope… Whack Whack
Blizzard stop it’s not moving anymore.
At least you’re self-aware. I’d also be okay with it, however.
