I'm here to post "constructively" as was suggested. I'm not combing (haha) though 25 pages of complaining and whining to check if someone has already covered this, so it most likely will be a repeat of something previously complained and whined about.
On an overpopulated realm like Stormrage (US Alliance) the auction house and guild bank are pretty slow most of the time due to traffic. I can understand how increasing the deposit of herbs and ore would discourage players from posting single stacks to alleviate said traffic, but this is like charging someone $400 for a gallon of gasoline because the state's roads are screwed up. When the taxes and tolls that we already pay should be covering the cost of repaving the streets, Blizzard instead charges us to drive our cars. I mean, I like the idea behind discouraging players from posting single stacks, but I just tried to post Defiled Augment Runes in order to give some lower level players a chance and it was a 56g deposit for the full stack of 20. Now, if you're going to tell me that's not broken, I simply don't believe you. That's exactly 60% of the vendor price on an item that is 1) not a crafting material and 2) not guaranteed to sell. Yes, I can just give it away, but I rather enjoyed throwing them up on the AH for 10g in the hopes that some lucky person could snag them for what is essentially vendor cost. Now I'm going to end up vendoring them myself to make room in my guild bank, along with everything else which is too expensive to throw on the auction house. And I know the system is broken because the prices are the same even when I put them in larger stacks. Something still has to be done, and this is not the answer. Not even close.
I will only add to this, with the exception of older matts, this actually incentivies those that didnt place 1 stacks to do so on some items to increase the likelihood of selling it. On top of that, I will be less inclined to place large stacks of anything anymore and instead divide them into 5's always for everything. This has made sure my sales keep happening with high success.
So instead of having about 20ish differing stack sizes of Monelite, now have 100 stacks of 5. Was this your intention with this? it actually doesnt appear to be very beneficial for any party. I could be wrong though.
So instead of having about 20ish differing stack sizes of Monelite, now have 100 stacks of 5. Was this your intention with this? it actually doesnt appear to be very beneficial for any party. I could be wrong though.
Let's just hope that blizzard is quick about their temporary status on this one all I do is list lower numbers I don't flood the auction house but I don't sell 200 of anything because I don't really farm that much of any one item they should be able to come up with an auction house revamp that is super effective just take tricks from the add-ons that are already out there already
Its sad to me that a game like runescape, or alot of other games for the matter, guild wars 2 etc have better "auction house" systems in place. This higher deposit did literally nothing to the problem, I still see thousand of auctions for common materials listed in stacks of one, just limit stacks to 20 for common materials, would be soooooo much better, or better yet adopt the runescape style of grand exchange, placing orders for buying and selling.
08/27/2018 06:49 PMPosted by Tilwith08/22/2018 09:49 AMPosted by YthisensIn either case, the deposit is returned to the seller if the item sells. Successful auctions aren’t affected by this change.
Yeah, this won't work. Market values are ultimately set by the people posting thousands of 1-item stacks. The cost of reposting will just be absorbed into the item's average AH value.
Just set a cap on postings of trade goods.
Told you so: Anchor Weed just went from 400g to 600g; deposits were absorbed into cost, behavior remained unchanged. Guild Bank is currently unusable in Stormrage.
09/02/2018 07:21 PMPosted by Tilwith08/27/2018 06:49 PMPosted by Tilwith...
Yeah, this won't work. Market values are ultimately set by the people posting thousands of 1-item stacks. The cost of reposting will just be absorbed into the item's average AH value.
Just set a cap on postings of trade goods.
Told you so: Anchor Weed just went from 400g to 600g; deposits were absorbed into cost, behavior remained unchanged. Guild Bank is currently unusable in Stormrage.
Why whatever do you mean? It successfully reduced the amount of AH listing because of re-...oh no you are right. The amount of people that saw this as very black and white dont realize this hurt the AH more then it ever helped it. Now rare old mats will not be listed very often, if at all where current mats will continue to be listed the same or worse as larger stacks are broken down to make smaller/more likely to sell stacks.
Briefly:
This change is stupid because:
1) Single stacks have value to buyers in certain circumstances. (i.e. Trying to make it harder to post singles actually hurts some people)
2) Old Expansion mats that are expensive and take multiple re-postings to sell will die off reducing diversity of crafting.
3) Due to the risk of large stacks not selling in fluctuating markets and correctly priced stacks of one nearly always selling... this change will actually incentivize posting singles.
i.e. Posting your 200 stack in 10 stacks of 1 and sitting and monitoring them. As they sell you replace them with more stacks of 1 until you've sold all 200 in stacks of one.
Not helpful.
How about just rolling up all the same sized stacks for the same seller into a single line in the AH and allow you to buy all or some of them with a click?
i.e.
Tidespray Linen 136 stacks of 1 TrollPoster124 Bid: 12s Buy: 1g 30s
Tidespray Linen 14 stacks of 5 RealPoster12 Bid: 1g Buy: 4g 12s
So.... No more stack-of-1 cruft visible, far less incentive for stack-of-1 cruft ( because no one sees it any more and it doesn't block you from seeing other auctions), yet you also allow the normal flow of posting to continue.
i.e. Novel, I know... but maybe solve an interface problem by CHANGING THE INTERFACE?
This change is stupid because:
1) Single stacks have value to buyers in certain circumstances. (i.e. Trying to make it harder to post singles actually hurts some people)
2) Old Expansion mats that are expensive and take multiple re-postings to sell will die off reducing diversity of crafting.
3) Due to the risk of large stacks not selling in fluctuating markets and correctly priced stacks of one nearly always selling... this change will actually incentivize posting singles.
i.e. Posting your 200 stack in 10 stacks of 1 and sitting and monitoring them. As they sell you replace them with more stacks of 1 until you've sold all 200 in stacks of one.
Not helpful.
How about just rolling up all the same sized stacks for the same seller into a single line in the AH and allow you to buy all or some of them with a click?
i.e.
Tidespray Linen 136 stacks of 1 TrollPoster124 Bid: 12s Buy: 1g 30s
Tidespray Linen 14 stacks of 5 RealPoster12 Bid: 1g Buy: 4g 12s
So.... No more stack-of-1 cruft visible, far less incentive for stack-of-1 cruft ( because no one sees it any more and it doesn't block you from seeing other auctions), yet you also allow the normal flow of posting to continue.
i.e. Novel, I know... but maybe solve an interface problem by CHANGING THE INTERFACE?
09/02/2018 06:09 PMPosted by SoulcomberOn an overpopulated realm like Stormrage (US Alliance) the auction house and guild bank are pretty slow most of the time due to traffic. I can understand how increasing the deposit of herbs and ore would discourage players from posting single stacks to alleviate said traffic, but this is like charging someone $400 for a gallon of gasoline because the state's roads are screwed up. When the taxes and tolls that we already pay should be covering the cost of repaving the streets, Blizzard instead charges us to drive our cars.
From the rhetoric of your argument, I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess Plainfield or Naperville.
Seriously, though. This is nowhere near the point of $400 for a gallon of gas, because that would choke the entire economy. No one would be able to get to work at all. This is more along the lines of taking the expressway and tollway system and saying, "Now this is reserved for trucks that are carrying goods in bulk and for cars with two or more people in it. All the rest of you can take local roads." It's an imperfect solution, to be sure, but it would certainly encourage mass-transit use or carpooling by removing at least half the cars from the expressway, because the alternative is having everyone see their commute times double or triple. But hey, it's free.
The flaw in your expressway metaphor is, you can't just add lanes to an expressway. First, it costs billions of dollars, but more importantly it just encourages more people to get on the expressway. Every traffic study shows that if you add more lanes, more people use the wider road, and nobody gets anywhere any faster. And, you know that putting in more computational power on the Auction House end will only encourage people to keep sticking one-stacks on there.
So, for the sake of taking this expressway analogy to its conclusion, let's pretend for a moment that the expressway exists solely for the purpose of moving goods, and that commuters going to work aren't a factor at all.
- A single person carrying a single item in his trunk takes one third of the space on the highway as an entire semi truck that's carrying 200 items in its trailer, and therefore is contributing to one quarter of the total traffic, if there was one car for every semi truck. In that case, the car should pay for one quarter of the total tolls that would go to keeping that road intact. However, if there are forty single-listings (cars) for every full or significantly-sized stack (truck), now there's a massive traffic problem, and that problem is obviously caused by the cars.
- As a result, we raise the tolls for cars until the traffic moves smoothly again. Cars begin carrying five or ten items in their trunks instead of just one, and the system becomes balanced.
But, what of the old-school materials that don't sell quickly or in great quantity, you may ask. Well, there's always Trade chat, which is the equivalent of local roads, in that it's slow, but it's completely free. Or, for people who are leveling through old content and just selling the stuff they pick up, if they significantly undercut the market price, someone who wants that item is going to buy it, and the risk of a high deposit is virtually negated.
I'm certainly enjoying this new change to the tollway. I picked up a mount last night for about 7500, when it went for about 25k a couple of weeks back. Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to go raid my bags for a bunch of Living Steel to give to a friend, who very nearly bought a bunch of it on the Auction House for a thousand gold apiece. Not sad to see those auctions get unfulfilled, either.
To quote the Borg Queen: "Watch your futures end."
09/02/2018 11:30 AMPosted by InfinWould a physical time barrier be of any use in this situation? Something as simple as a dialogue box that pops up and asks "are you sure you would like to post the following item at ____ value"?
Just make a addon for that. Problem solved.
Working very well on my server, keep up the good work and don't let these guys trick you into reverting this change!
09/02/2018 08:26 PMPosted by Solarslam09/02/2018 11:30 AMPosted by InfinWould a physical time barrier be of any use in this situation? Something as simple as a dialogue box that pops up and asks "are you sure you would like to post the following item at ____ value"?
Just make a addon for that. Problem solved.
Working very well on my server, keep up the good work and don't let these guys trick you into reverting this change!
Just finished selling 3000 single stacks of BFA herbs. My stacks of 200 have yet to sell.
I guess I’ll just repost all my large stacks as single stacks since they sell faster that way.
09/02/2018 06:59 PMPosted by VikinngLet's just hope that blizzard is quick about their temporary status on this one all I do is list lower numbers I don't flood the auction house but I don't sell 200 of anything because I don't really farm that much of any one item they should be able to come up with an auction house revamp that is super effective just take tricks from the add-ons that are already out there already
I agree it kills many markets for the little guy.
The problem has nothing to do with people spamming stacks of 1 and everything to do with the garbage implementation of the AH.
First thing to do is allow partial buyout for stackable items. I suspect the reason for the lack of a partial buyout feature is that it would be incompatible with auctioning (no easy way to allow people to bid on partial amounts of a stack). The solution to this problem: Allow every entry on the AH to be framed as buyout-only or biddable (where the starting price is lower than the buyout price). Biddable items will use the existing system (with the extra deposit for stacks of 1). For buyout-only stacks, there will be no reason to flood the AH with many stacks of 1 as you can post a full stack and people can buy as many as they want.
The second problem is how slow the AH UI is. Scrolling through each page shouldn't take several seconds to refresh on a cable internet connection. If the AH UI is fundamentally slow due to poor design, then add more filters so players can curb the amount of "stack of 1" spam. Players shouldn't be required to use addons just so they can have a usable AH UI.
First thing to do is allow partial buyout for stackable items. I suspect the reason for the lack of a partial buyout feature is that it would be incompatible with auctioning (no easy way to allow people to bid on partial amounts of a stack). The solution to this problem: Allow every entry on the AH to be framed as buyout-only or biddable (where the starting price is lower than the buyout price). Biddable items will use the existing system (with the extra deposit for stacks of 1). For buyout-only stacks, there will be no reason to flood the AH with many stacks of 1 as you can post a full stack and people can buy as many as they want.
The second problem is how slow the AH UI is. Scrolling through each page shouldn't take several seconds to refresh on a cable internet connection. If the AH UI is fundamentally slow due to poor design, then add more filters so players can curb the amount of "stack of 1" spam. Players shouldn't be required to use addons just so they can have a usable AH UI.
A this point I think the only thing that is going to fix this problem is to just delete the Auction House and start over. It's clear that many facets of WoWs game engine have rusted away over time. WoW simply wasn't designed to be played for nearly 15 years. I have no idea how closely the Auction House systems are tied to the core of WoWs code, or if it's even possible to just throw it in the dumpster and start over, but I would be more excited about an Auction House overhaul than X new content right now.
The Auction House on my server is already back to being almost as unusable as it was before the deposit change. People continue to sell massive stacks of 1 they just want to sell them fast and as long as they post them for a hefty undercut, they will sell instantly with no risk on their end. The side effect of the deposit hike is that old materials are now basically pointless to try and sell. Old materials move much slower than new stuff obviously and if you fail to sell those old materials 5 times you have gained nothing.
The new change is arguably worse and I hope that it was only ever intended to be a short-term solution while a more realistic one is in the works.
The Auction House on my server is already back to being almost as unusable as it was before the deposit change. People continue to sell massive stacks of 1 they just want to sell them fast and as long as they post them for a hefty undercut, they will sell instantly with no risk on their end. The side effect of the deposit hike is that old materials are now basically pointless to try and sell. Old materials move much slower than new stuff obviously and if you fail to sell those old materials 5 times you have gained nothing.
The new change is arguably worse and I hope that it was only ever intended to be a short-term solution while a more realistic one is in the works.
08/22/2018 09:49 AMPosted by YthisensTo address some issues related to the Auction House, we’re reconsidering how deposits—the refundable fees you pay to list your auctions—are calculated. This fee is based on the item’s vendor price, and for profession materials in particular, vendors offer very low prices, so these mats have a low deposit cost. Deposits are substantial on items such as BoE uncommon gear, gems, and so forth, but not trade skill materials (trade goods such as cloth, ore, leather, etc.).
One thing we’ve identified as particularly troublesome is a large volume of trade skill materials being auctioned off in stacks of 1. Some addons make posting quantities of this size trivial to do, resulting in dozens, if not hundreds, of pages of auctions for a single item. As we looked at ways to change this behavior and improve the overall Auction House experience, we found that we prefer to avoid inflexible solutions such as caps on the number of listings a player can make, or increased minimum stack counts, which might interfere with many players' common gameplay habits.
Our current plan is to increase the deposit cost of some profession materials on a per-stack basis, which should provide incentive for players to post items in larger stacks.
Here's an example:
• Let’s say that a player is trying to sell 200 Tidespray Linen for 10g (gold) each. Today, each item has the normal deposit cost of 1c (copper), with a 1s (silver) minimum deposit, so 1 auction of 200 linen requires a deposit of 1s, and 200 auctions of 1 linen each adds up to a total deposit of 2g.
• Now imagine an additional 20% deposit added to the listing fee per auction. With an asking price of 10g each, that raises the deposit by 2g per stack. In the case of 1 stack of 200 linen, the total buyout price is 2000g, and the new deposit is 2g1s. In the case of 200 individual stacks, the new deposit of an additional 2g per stack brings the total deposit up to 402g.
In either case, the deposit is returned to the seller if the item sells. Successful auctions aren’t affected by this change.
Our goal is to give players some forewarning on this change, and to gather feedback. We’re putting together a list of the items that would be affected by this deposit change, which we expect to be limited to high-quantity trade goods. Furthermore, we’re deploying the change to the PTR first, so that addon authors can work through the change while we test it thoroughly.
This change will likely be a temporary measure, as we’re also working to broadly improve the default Auction House in the future. It’s clear to us that many players use addons because they find the default Auction House interface inadequate. A temporary change to deposit fees will help with this in the short term, and we’ll continue to work on overall improvements to the Auction House for a future patch.
Blixzard did not have to do this. The default UI, which I use, actually encourages this behavior. Also, we may only be able to one or two of an item for crafting, and we may not be able to afford or want to waste gold getting extra just to craft one thing that needs a few copies of the item.
The easy way to fix this problem without harming people (and actually improving gameplay) is to allow us to submit a stack of an item and then let buyers select a subset number of the item. If I put up a stack of 200, you can buy just 1 or 5 or 83 of the item from that stack.
Further, you can force stacking of the same item by the same submitter at the same price-per-unit at the same duration (or nearly so) into a giant glob. Then everyone can buy whatever amount of that glob that they need.
Y'all need to UPDATE THE AH SOFTWARE!!
In concept, the idea is ok, but in reality - it SUCKS!! I can't list older tradecraft items that rarely sell anymore because it just costs too darn much considering how often they sell. MAYBE, JUST MAYBE if you limited the 20% to current expansion items, and even then, did some research and only targeted the biggest 'culprit' items
In concept, the idea is ok, but in reality - it SUCKS!! I can't list older tradecraft items that rarely sell anymore because it just costs too darn much considering how often they sell. MAYBE, JUST MAYBE if you limited the 20% to current expansion items, and even then, did some research and only targeted the biggest 'culprit' items
This is total !@#$. Too expensive.
The AH is very slow
That is all.
That is all.
I've stopped putting things up. I'm not a big auction house player. I just gather ore and skinning mats and put them up. This change has stopped me from doing so. I used to put up stacks of 10 and 20 because sometimes ppl just need 10 and 20 and not a stack that costs thousands.
No more.
No more.
Can we please get buy and sell orders for the Auction House? It'd make the place so much more usable.
Yep i stopped putting stuff up as well. Losing 300 to 400g at a time isnt worth it. Undercutting means my stuff doesn't sell and I lose the deposit. So the stacks of herbs and ore sit in the bank for now. I used to put up stacks also of 10 to 20, sometimes stacks of 50 or 100 if I had the items. I am no longer doing it as it's just too costly now.