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Having a variety of goods from all expansions is a community service. Someone has to go fetch them to post them. The effort to post hundreds of items using the default interface is a huge burden. The game is larger than the current expansion, and the Dev's have been working on making the old world more relevant to those of us in end game. A market needs both a buyer and a seller, so making zero gold does not make it worth the effort for sellers. That would dramatically affect the community. Farm your own mats for everything? Think the grind is bad now for rep.... add in everything else?!?!?1111111
The Shadoweave Mask for the lucid nightmare is a recent example, both from the gameplay and old world mat/recipe perspective. :-)
I didn't suggest players not be able to make a profit for how they play the game.
With the most recent change to professions we should see a tremendous decrease in the demand for mats outside the current expansion. There will always be completionists and there will always be some who care to craft a specific item from an expansion long past, but for the most part now that you don't have to level a profession from vanilla to bfa... anything pre-bfa will become somewhat of an oddity.
My post was addressing those folks that DON'T actually go out into the world and collect and profit from gathering. Those that simply play the auction house and either buyout everything from a select few items/mats, to maintain a high price on those items (monopoly) or are constantly buying out items lower than the average price, and relisting them at a higher price. (This has a singular benefit to the individual and NO ONE else).
Sniping lower price items and selling them is simple to do regardless of all the addons and will continue to happen regardless. I have bought many a cheap goblin glider (and other stuff) just to re-post at 20+g each more. ;) You are never going to prevent this activity. If you don't like it, you are clearly not understanding how the AH works.
Hell, when Tanaan jungle was released, I completely owned the marked on Mal'ganis for about 2 weeks on the crafting reagent and rep token. Anyone trying to tank the market was bought out as soon as I saw it and I re-posted at stupid prices. You know why? Because I COULD! No addons were used to snipe all those... and I made millions. :)
Amazing, I love it. I can already see the people that would post 200+ of 1 are not doing this anymore - in which makes the AH run a lot more smooth. Normally for me it is the worst at night, so I am hoping it remains the same at night time. Also happy we get our deposit back because I'm pretty sure I would just stop using the AH all together if my deposit was taken with an successful auction as well as a 5% cut being taken away from me. Thank you!
What about making the ability for buyers to be able to by any unit quantity out of a listed stack on the AH. If you destroy the need for people to buy single stacks to make their desired quantity people will stop doing it all together. Say I list 200. Buyer only needs 10, they are more likely to buy 10 single stacks than my 200. If that buyer could buy 10units out of my stack of 200 they are more likely to do that than individually click and buy single stacks...
Some addons make posting quantities of this size trivial to do, resulting in dozens, if not hundreds, of pages of auctions for a single item.
Alternatively you could break said addons.
The addons you speak of do not benefit the community... they benefit the individual, resulting (typically) in higher prices overall. The ability of people at or around gold cap can quite effectively monopolize the economy for any commodity they desire.
No addon should be able to do something a normal player (sans addon) couldn't be able to do on their own. The amount of manual labor that would be required to monitor prices, and buy up bulk items that are under the average sales price... would be infinitely more intensive.
What kind of load are we looking at coming from the constant scans/queries coming from these addons? I find it hard to believe the lag is ONLY the result of mass single stack postings.
Actually using macros and the default AH you CAN just as quickly post thousands of 1 piece stacks of various items to the AH.
I’ve done it during BC and WoTLK before I ever used AH addons.
[quote="207663005127"][quote="207663295701"]
TLDR; breaking the add-ons isn't going to help. Need to rebuild the code of the auction house as it's at its breaking point after 14 years of money nimum updates.
I definitely agree that we need better tools to manage our needs.
But I think the uses of auctioneer really kind of ride the fence of utility and exploitation.
I was specifically addressing those that play the auction house by scanning through every available item and compiling a database by which to determine a profitable range to buy out and relist at a higher price. That scan/search puts a load on the server. How much? Dunno. More than listing thousands of items individually?
Assume for a second they were able to curb the behavior of posting individual items vs stacks. Now the only problem is the amount of extraneous searches being conducted by a computer program... and not by an individual.
Adding tools that allow players to select a desired quantity for a given item, at the lowest price (because why would you ever pay more if you didn't have to) would ultimately make stack sizes irrelevant.
By changing the the deposit amount you really only negatively effect the casual AH player anyway.
For example, I gather on most of my characters. I sell relevant mats whenever I am near an AH. I don't go out of my way to farm specific mats, or to play the AH. I play, I pick up some mats that others can use and then I sell them. I rarely have a full stack of anything to sell at the time that I list an item. Therefore (assuming changes move forward according to their plans here) I will be paying more in deposits for my partial stacks. Than someone who is actively selling full stacks, playing the AH, etc. This will have limited effect (as shown by Blizzard) on the true abusers of the AH, and will have a more negative effect on those who don't frequent the AH (and aren't really the problem anyway).
[quote][quote="207663295701"]
TLDR; breaking the add-ons isn't going to help. Need to rebuild the code of the auction house as it's at its breaking point after 14 years of money nimum updates.
I definitely agree that we need better tools to manage our needs.
But I think the uses of auctioneer really kind of ride the fence of utility and exploitation.
I was specifically addressing those that play the auction house by scanning through every available item and compiling a database by which to determine a profitable range to buy out and relist at a higher price. That scan/search puts a load on the server. How much? Dunno. More than listing thousands of items individually?
Assume for a second they were able to curb the behavior of posting individual items vs stacks. Now the only problem is the amount of extraneous searches being conducted by a computer program... and not by an individual.
Adding tools that allow players to select a desired quantity for a given item, at the lowest price (because why would you ever pay more if you didn't have to) would ultimately make stack sizes irrelevant.
By changing the the deposit amount you really only negatively effect the casual AH player anyway.
For example, I gather on most of my characters. I sell relevant mats whenever I am near an AH. I don't go out of my way to farm specific mats, or to play the AH. I play, I pick up some mats that others can use and then I sell them. I rarely have a full stack of anything to sell at the time that I list an item. Therefore (assuming changes move forward according to their plans here) I will be paying more in deposits for my partial stacks. Than someone who is actively selling full stacks, playing the AH, etc. This will have limited effect (as shown by Blizzard) on the true abusers of the AH, and will have a more negative effect on those who don't frequent the AH (and aren't really the problem anyway).
I can not agree more. This change will hurt the players who are casual using the auction house as they do not have the gold reserves to handle the increased deposit fee's whereas the small percentage of people "professionally" playing the auction house have the money to handle this change.
[quote]
Sniping lower price items and selling them is simple to do regardless of all the addons and will continue to happen regardless. I have bought many a cheap goblin glider (and other stuff) just to re-post at 20+g each more. ;) You are never going to prevent this activity. If you don't like it, you are clearly not understanding how the AH works.
Hell, when Tanaan jungle was released, I completely owned the marked on Mal'ganis for about 2 weeks on the crafting reagent and rep token. Anyone trying to tank the market was bought out as soon as I saw it and I re-posted at stupid prices. You know why? Because I COULD! No addons were used to snipe all those... and I made millions. :)
Sigh talk about missing the point. Extrapolate that singular search, to a search for any and ALL items on the AH, and you know have a significant load to the server.
For you to do that sans addon, for EVERY item on the AH... would be quite difficult, and extremely time consuming.
While yes, I have issue with sniping. That isn't ever going to change in a "free market". You cannot deny that the behavior at some level is exploitive. If YOU have the time and energy to do it... more power to you. But Blizzard shouldn't be allowing non-human systems to be scanning the AH at all hours of the day. I can't say with certainty but I imagine that places a significant load on the server simply performing the search.
The SEARCH is primarily what I am taking issue with. But I'm willing to concede I'm dead wrong on the load that creates.
This additional fee should be something coded to kick in automatically rather than something manually set. If a material has rarefied availability low posting fees lets a seller keep the item listed without being overly punitive.
I'm skeptical this is going to do anything. The people making those posts usually sell. The problem is there's too many people that need to buy just 1.
Can't you just consolidate on the backend? Instead of storing 150 entries that are exactly the same why don't you just store 1 entry and display it as 150?
Would it not be easier to just have an option to search the AH for certain stack sizes?
The walls are already making their way back on as people log on and fix their addons. Can't wait for later tonight when nothing has changed and all the "omg Blizz u r so wonderful and this is teh most perfect solution ever and all those meaniepants people are just stupidfaces that hate the game" people start wondering why it didn't work.
So... basically, the rich get richer, and the poor can't do jack !@#$ to catch up... neat.
Great job Blizz, punish everyone for the actions of single stack spammers
Auction House wishlist:
I never want to have to search through pages of stacks of 1 of anything. Ever. If I need 40 pieces of linen and there are 400 pieces of Linen on the AH available for me to buy, I should be able to select the lowest amount of stacks that will get me to that number easily and purchase them within a couple of seconds.
I want information about how much gold a thing is selling for, and has sold for in the recent past, available to me without too much effort and without having to use an addon.
I want the ability to buy and sell things on the AH from my phone while I'm not logged into the game.
I wish they would overhaul the whole thing, let us buy 16 bits of cloth at the cheepest no matter the stack size. Make them stack if they are the same price.
Got 1073 bit of cloth all at 30g show us that. Not a thousand pages of nothing.
EVE/gw2 markets are great to use. Can list buy and sell and items just store up and oldest cheepest sell first
I didn't suggest players not be able to make a profit for how they play the game.
With the most recent change to professions we should see a tremendous decrease in the demand for mats outside the current expansion. There will always be completionists and there will always be some who care to craft a specific item from an expansion long past, but for the most part now that you don't have to level a profession from vanilla to bfa... anything pre-bfa will become somewhat of an oddity.
My post was addressing those folks that DON'T actually go out into the world and collect and profit from gathering. Those that simply play the auction house and either buyout everything from a select few items/mats, to maintain a high price on those items (monopoly) or are constantly buying out items lower than the average price, and relisting them at a higher price. (This has a singular benefit to the individual and NO ONE else).
What you're more than suggesting is that it's a good thing that leveling characters should be dirt poor and unable to farm up enough gold to buy frivolities like, oh, faster flight? Changes to profession leveling were indeed intended to hurt new players who don't have trust funds that can be used to pay their expenses, yet will be made to spend an extended period of time in leveling content with much less to do than ever.
People are still trying to level up old professions, but recent changes to the game making it necessary to use max level players to farm mats for low level professions means that my 80 level enchanter on a new server can't afford to level up enchanting and can't earn enough gold for faster flight.
The harder you make it for new players to level up and level professions, the less likely they will be there for you when you need that stuff YOU trained them not to do.
If the problem is that valuable mats are assigned a vendor value that is too low, this is a problem that they created themselves, not one the playerbase is responsible for.
100g a stack for anchor weed....
You !@#$ed up with anchor weed.
Not messed up; %^-*ed up.
100g per stack deposit.
I'm not selling my Anchor Weed anymore on the AH. I'll shout in trade chat if I feel like messing with it, otherwise I'll use them for MY toons benefit. Hope all you raiders didn't really need those flasks LOL. Thank blizz when you come up short, or you know you could just go gather the mats yourselves.
Now that I think about it, hope yall didn't need the Midnight Salmon for those feasts either because as a crafting mat they'll get hit too, so, I'll be keeping them and using them for myself. Yall can go fishing too, nothing is stopping you. Go get your own mats from now on.
What all did and didn't get hit with the deposit hike isn't even consistent... Legion epic crystals are untouched but Legion rare shards are affected, among other things.
I'm sure it's been stated and re-stated umpteen times (not reading the entire thread), but I feel sorry for anyone trying to sell or buy older premium materials. I know I'm stuffing some items into my AH mule's gbank for the foreseeable future because they're too low margin to be worthwhile now but worth enough to not just vendor. :-/
While bandaids will help...this is a start I suppose (theres a special place in hell for people that list 5 pages of 1 enchanting dusts) I think the auction house at its core is in need of an overhaul. There really havent been any significant updates to the AH since the game went live. Many other games have excellent examples of a functional and excellent system for an auction house (lookin at you GW2!) and I think that WoW really needs updates for multiple reasons---
Among the reasons for an AH overhaul I can think of off the top of my head:
- Speeding up searches: removing the 'pages' of the auction house's functionality is a start here... it has worked, but its still clunky in operation.
- Customized searching: Categories in game are good, and generally get you where you're going - but could use some work. More details/menus to filter through can speed up searches for something specific. Again there are many good examples of this - what we have now is a bit archaic and there could be a lot more customization and details to add to searches to make them a bit more specific, and maybe lighten the load ever so slightly from the millions of people utilizing AHs on a constant basis
- Item "Pooling": As an example of what I mean here: Say you search out an item, lets say its a crafting material, we'll use Monelite Ore as an example. There's 2000 in the AH at various prices that players list them as. Player buying buys 5x stacks of 200 for a total of 1000, and the lowest priced 1000 ores cost X amount based on what players are posting them for - Easy. The idea here is removing the listing of stacks in X amount all together (the problem being people posting PAGES of singles). This way you want to sell ... say - 157 Monelite Ore, and people can buy however many they want from what you post. 1... 5... 100.. whatever. If you've got the cheapest items on the AH, yours are going to sell out first, then on to the next lowest posted, and so on.
- Change deposits and/or posting limits: Deposits for the AH, to a degree, actually hinder the economy on WoW. Many items from the past that people may be looking for on the AH don't get posted. If there's low demand for items - many people won't post them, plain and simple. This applies to older expansion items, from uncommons-epics maybe sought out for DE/Transmogs, to the crafting materials people may want to make old stuff to level up with the move to the new crafting system. An easy fix to this would be returning deposits when an item DOESN'T sell as well as when it does (obviously still having someone lose said deposit if they post and then take an item down) - or maybe remove deposits all together and perhaps tweak the AH fees taken from the item purchased. Basically penalizing people for listing stuff that doesn't get sold HURTS after a while, and makes it cost more to sell than to never list. Meanwhile, the benefits to encouraging those items to be posted on the AH greatly helps those people who one day decide to take up a new profession or finish up some archaic achievement. (NOTE: Deposits and AH fees are a necessary evil to combat inflation on the in-game economy. All of the values can be whipped up so there's no REAL loss here, and if anything more items being traded = a much better means for this, as one fee can offset a deposit. This will stimulate trading and encourage more items to pass through the AH, and in turn, fees would eventually become a better standard to counter inflation than deposits.) - I typed this while looking at a nearly 15 gold deposit on a stack of gorgrond flytraps.
I'm no programmer, and I am not entirely sure whats going on under the hood- however it seems that updating a relatively archaic auction system (we're talking ~ 14 years with relatively few major changes) is going to hinder performance more than tweaking deposits.