My favorite part about this troll is that he’s convinced someone mentioning they did a +21 means they’re flexing
Who is the troll lol. I play mu fury warrior ( not furry warrior) and sometimes I am uelsss in certain afflix weeks where I don’t even bother because I have no tools in my kit to deal with it. Also I don’t have much party utilities like mage gives a shield to the group, DH have darkness and CC WW monk have Ring of pace group CC, ret pally have CC and utilities to reduce damage for party member and b rez feral druid have MoW and b Rez and some CC Each shammy have Wind fury lust CC DK have grip and rogue kings of CC and shroud
Warrior not so much
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Hey now, we have a shout…
Not only Fury, arms is a joke too, besides that we have no utility, paladins, xamans, warlocks, tons of damage tons of utility, make warriors like DH, Full dps, but even dh got some utility kit in pve
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The worst part is that besides the damage your ret friend can full heal someone with lay on hands, cast brez and normal res, give someone damage imunity, remove roots and slows, two types of damage, aoe cc, single cc, but we warriors got nothing, realy makes me sick, my warlock is where I run to now, because in my warrior is just sad.
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Nice detailed response ty (not sarcastic!), I didn’t do raids or dungeons in BFA/SL/DF which is why I didn’t count them, in fact I don’t think I even leveled all the way and if I did it was just questing.
I do totally agree dps is good under ideal conditions, double CD fights (2min range) mean very good dps.
I agree I have room for improvement which is why I am also basing this on logs of top warriors not just mine. I’m pretty good at analyzing logs so I have an idea what I need to work on. However, I think damage will still be weak even after I improve based on the logs of the top players I’m comparing myself to.
PS You have given me a sliver of hope 
Having played for 20 years doesn’t result in you knowing more about a class, a majority of past knowledge is irrelevant to current warrior design.
Regardless of that Op said they stopped playing during Wotlk so this notion you have wouldn’t even apply.
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well warrior its one of the best melee out there in damage and survival they have the highest hp pool, good leech passive and good ammount of defensives.
i think you might be out of touch with the class i run 24s on a push group of 8 members and when the warrior shows up he is on par a Havoc DH which is a great feat.
having and not having leggos, correct embelishments and good statweights plays a good part, also IL regardless of secondarys IL means more MAIN STAT if you look at your spells in databases like icyveins/wclogs/wowhead you can see the scaling is mainly by weapon damage and STR so regardless of your other pieces of gear if your weapon sucks, so your dam and if your il is low it will reflect in your dam.
last but not least dont use wowhead guides, go to murlokio there you can see what top 50 warriors (or any spec) run if you compared the average or even personal build of every warrior there with wowhead you will see they are not close by a mile (i already did the research for you sir, they are not)
im a 3.1k player so my opinion might not be from the top but its close.
i think also warrior is made to keep simple because its “the tutorial class” in some games they have tutorial clases/characters so ppl learn the ropes while you can totally do alot of things on warrior if your skill exceeds the class you can go to another one class.
i honestly dont know if this is blizzard take but thats the take on other gaming companies.
There is no tutorial class in wow but if there was it would probably be Paladin or Druids since both are simple, flashy and can be played as any role.
I mean, they both have more buttons and utility than a warrior will ever have, so I don’t know that I’d call them simple.
Frankly, MOST classes/specs in this game are pretty brain-dead simple. Even the “difficult” ones aren’t that hard.
As for the rest of the thread:
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The troll is Grizzle, he trolls alot of forums and can normally be ignored as he doesn’t actually do anything in game and just spouts whatever crazy idea comes up.
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Warrior’s damage is fine, their utility is not. The issue lies that if Warrior utility gets buffed for PvE, it will make them absolutely unbalanceable in PvP. Blizz obviously hasn’t figured out how to deal with that (ignoring that they have mechanics for it…)
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Most physical dps classes are quite mediocre in M+, because caster/magic damage utility stacks better, especially with Aug. Aug buffs everyone, Mage buffs Aug, DH buffs both, priests buff both, druids buff both, etc.
Warriors buff physical damage classes. Monks, BM hunters, feral druids, etc… specs that historically get shat on by M+.
An absolutely beast of a team SHOULD be, Bear-Ret-Warrior-BM-MW, but the buffs don’t stack as well and you have no room for Aug, or specs buffing Aug well.
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Perfect example:
31 AD, Bear-MW-Outlaw-Fury-BM, physical based team.
Squishvegan
Ortemist
Junkratxd
Noxiv
Venthunt
It can be done, and there are some people doing it, but it is very niche because blizzard built the game to work for casters better. Make a physical based support spec that buffs based on its attack power, and suddenly Warrior is its best friend like Mage is to Aug.
I find BM hunter to be easier class to play honestly. Melee I would have to give to Ret. just press what’s not on CD.
rets have utility responsabilitys like bops, sacs and other stuff on low keys yeah you can skip those on high keys the expectation of a ret is do ret things, not the damage they do.
in higher keys damage its a meh thing until you reach 27 or higher but for 24-26 which is still considered “low-high keys” damage its not an issue its survival and handling the “pull puzzle” thats when ret and other clases are expected to do “things” warrior unfortunatly cant do much and many dont even talent to CC and copypasta the wowhead guide which is trash as that guide optimize damage over CC
that comp is temporary tho, as in an afflicted tyranical week healer will need to heal during boses and with only 1 dispell he would need to heal 1 aflicted or pull off perfect dispells (you can tecnically dispell both ghosties if you perfect cast).
but realistically that comp would be killed by some affix rotation.
How is it i dont do anything but have cleared more content than you?? And you have yet to disprove anything ive said lol which you cant because everything i say is backed by logs and numbers and that thing called proof lol sorry you think guardian season 2 tier set is better than 3 when mathematically season 3 is better in all regards
Bear has a dispel
MW has a dispel
Bear has big heal every 20 seconds to deal with Afflicted if need be as well.
Edit: mind you, you dont always get 2 afflicted up either
The goal of a tutorial class is to ease players into the game while teaching them the fundamentals.
Having access to all 3 roles is perfect for this.
Ret, Feral and Balance have incredibly simple DPS rotations, Bear tank is often considered the easiest tank, Prot Paly is pretty straightforward too. Holy Pally and Resto Druid are not the easiest healer, that goes to Holy Priest but both of them benefit from the natural tankiness of their base class making it more forgiving on mistakes.
They do have more utility than warrior but that utility makes them a better tutorial class choice because it teaches that classes are not only made up of their DPS/Tanking/Healing buttons.
Both classes are on the flashier side with Paladin getting glowing light wings and throwing hammers, Druid shapeshifting and summoning moons to crash on targets. Both classes have a very unique identity that is easy to determine at a glance.
Warrior unfortunately lacks a lot of those perks, and while all 3 specs are pretty straightforward they don’t have a healing spec to teach that role, they also aren’t flashy and kinda lacks a cohesive class identity between specs outside of I got here using only my muscles and weapons.
…is, itself, misplaced if that’s used to describe the class’s overall/typical/competitive skill ceiling / available cognitive load.
A “tutorial class” would need only have simplistic builds available to at least one role of each spec it offers, not to be limited to that. There is no more sense for Ret to be simple than for Arcane to be simple, only that Mage and Paladin should each have a simple yet satisfying build option available to at least one of their DPS specs.
If/when everyone else is pulling off flashy ----… that’s a plenty unique identity. They don’t need unique Warrior Magic™.
The problem merely forms when one job offers greater pure ST, greater/later-capped mass AoE, and greater utility than another because one or more of those advantages was not weighed appropriately relative to the needs of keys at one or more (semi-)serious spans of key level (say, reward cap, the cutting edge, or halfway between them).
This is a funny statement, because it’s at least partially true. Despite the fact that they have many good points at times.
Obviously designing a new class to function as a tutorial class would better fit the mold.
We were discussing in regards to current class iterations, not a hypothetical redesign.
This is a non factor to what we were talking about? Once again we were not talking about a hypothetical redesign.
Yes the absence of a unique cohesive trait within the class and lack of flashy is it’s own trait, however this would hinder Warrior as a flagship tutorial class as it fails stand out at first glance and may seem unappealing.
Why does tuning matter in this context? It’s completely unrelated to class identity.