-attempts to enslave Eyir-
-gets punched by Greymane-
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Halya was forced to be come a Valâkyr by Odyn and chance are that Eyir being a Titanic Watcher was forced as well.
Let it also be known that there has never been cases in game where Valâkyr been independent, as they have always been shown to serve a master.
At best Sylvanas was taking Odynâs slave as her own.
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Eyir didnât seem to pleased with it. Maybe Sylvanas shouldnât be going around with magic artifacts forcing angelic beings to, in her words, âsubmit.â Just my opinion though.
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The act of ascension is not clearly defined.
Perhaps Odyn had controlled her mind already, and Sylvanas was actually setting her free.
The battle between Helya and Odyn shows that he has the power to force others to do his bidding despite their own opinions.
To quote Wowpedia:
"In order to retrieve the spirits of the deceased, Odyn would need vrykul to volunteer to become undead and take those spirits from the Shadowlands. The vrykul objected, and Helya tried to talk him out of it. Instead, Odyn transformed Helya into the first Valâkyr and ordered her to do the job for him.
Helya nursed resentment against Odyn for thousands of years, until the day Loken, a Keeper who had been influenced by Yogg-Saron, convinced her to turn against him. Helya used the same magic that had been used to lock the Elemental Plane to seal Odyn and his Valarjar army inside the Halls of Valor, and then decided herself to become the caretaker of vrykul souls in her new realm Helheim."
- From Wowpedia.
So whether Eyir is already enslaved, and being traded for another master, or possibly even freed at the behest of Helya, is uncertain.
I simply say there is not enough information - and what information exists is unclear. Odyn and Sylvanas are both awful, so I dont see Sylvanas taking one of his mind-slaves for her own as evil.
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Sylvanas tells Eyir to submit. Submission is not freedom. You are openly ignoring the clear and direct way Blizzard presented that content.
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If she is enslaved and commanded to serve Odyn, submitting to deprogramming is a thing.
It happens often when people are forcibly removed from cults that brainwash them. They resist deprogramming until they submit and realize they were brain washed.
Holy crap. Iâm out of words. The last few replies just have me laughing. My God these forums are beyond farcical at times.
People are really out here justifying Sylvanasâ enslaving people with what ifs and crap. Holy God.
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Thatâs only assuming that Eyir was free to begin with.
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If I am setting someone free, I donât sinisterly tell them to submit. Submission is yielding to the power or authority of another person. It is incompatible with freedom. You would have to be highly motivated to ignore this clear language, and direct presentation.
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Sure, I suppose. I reckon the point was the transferring/switching of masters. Anyways not sure why we are arguing Eyir. If Odyn can enslave people and be a dick, so can the players.
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If Odyn is enslaving people, that is wrong. It is still wrong if Sylvanas is doing it. Isnât free will supposed to be the cornerstone of Forsaken society?
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Iâm all about doing wrong things. Iâm not an Alliance player. But more importantly, I donât look away/shun narratives just because the characters/faction I like make the wrong decisions once in a while.
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That is a-ok with me. Then Alliance narrative is about stopping the horde from doing evil things, just like we did in Stormheim. I am happy with that.
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You call it justifying her actions. I disagree entirely.
I find it laughable that people are so quick to label things as evil when they know they are missing information. People are inclined to call things evil because it fits their narrative. Nothing new.
I am not âjustifyingâ anything. I am pointing out there is too much missing information and supposition, when we know Odyn has forced people to do his bidding in the past.
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Its assuming what the game shows us is⌠Oh God I donât even know how to approach this crap. We see that Odyn grooms his current generations of Valkyr but that they are absolutely overjoyed at the prospect of ascension before it happens.
I mean - GOD. Weâre on Story Forums. Weâre supposed to be able to understand basic narrative framing here. I feel like thereâs a haze of crazy around here when people start talking like this.
The framing is crystal freaking clear. Sylvanas is making a deal with a Sylvanas analog that showcases both her analogâs and her own willingness to make compromises against what was once their driving ethos (Being against the forced subjugation and conversion they were subjected to) and stoop to the levels of those they hate the most (Arthas, Odyn.)
THIS IS BASIC. Basic stuff!
We know because the game shows us that the current Valks enter their covenant willingly before their conversion. There are issues of grooming and crap but it is SO BEYOND what you are driving at.
Oh God I canât believe Iâm even replying to this.
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Man I can go into some pretty heavy RL comparisons on âreligious groomingâ. Mmm maybe I will. Sup Catholic Church, how about the little boys?
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And youâd be grasping at some honestly really gross straws to justify slavery. Have at it.
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Oh Iâm not justifying anything. Iâm just pointing out Odyn and his Warrior-Cult arenât exactly paragons to defend.
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Weâre not defending Odyn. We are saying Sylvanas is evil. Which you seem to accept, at least.
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They are a culture unto themselves and, at the very least, we see the opposite progression of ethics practiced by Odyn that we see with Sylvanas. He speaks with his people on their level with no deception, no veil or ulterior motive. They are groomed but they know exactly what they are being groomed into. There is absolutely nothing in the narrative that frames this as a case of ego death.
And in the context of the discussion - pitting Odynâs deeds against Sylvanasâ, he is ABSOLUTELY a paragon to defend when she has gone the opposite direction. From someone miffed about being killed and subjugated to doing it herself. Odynâs story is one of a mistake being made and him working to rectify, Sylvanasâ is a FALL.
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