Long story short, my damage is lack luster. I pull about 10.5k on a training dummy at ilvl367. I have been in groups with rogues that easily do 4k more than that and don't differ much from me in item level. I always thought it was because my weapons were by far my lowest ilvl pieces of gear, but I just got a ilvl370 dagger out of the weekly cache and, while it gave me a boost in damage, it only took me to the 10.5k dps I am at now.
I follow the rotation, stat priority, etc. guides on icy-veins, but I'm still left with the question of, "what am I doing wrong?"
What is the boards advice on my skill rotation?
Open from Stealth > Garrote > Mutilate (once or twice) > Rupture (4+ combo) > Subterfuge ends > Mutilate (once) > Toxic Blade > Vendetta > Cycle between Mutilate and 4+ Combo Envenom > Keep Garrote and Rupture up (re-add Garrote using Vanish) > Use CD's once up > Continue Mutilate Envenom Cycle
Also, I know the stat priority for Assassination rogues is Agility > Haste > Crit > etc , but do these scale where say stacking Crit is better than Haste once you have a certain amount of Haste?
Apparently Garroting twice during your opener and Vanish is the way to go, it increases that boosted Garrote’s duration.
I use 1 shrouded suffocation for raiding/single target (2 shrouded suffocation in m+) and here’s my rotation: Stealth > garrote > rupture > garrote > vendetta > mutilate > rupture > exang > mutilate to at least 4 cp > envenom > mutilate to 4 cp > envenom > when your garrote is just about to end you vanish > garrote > garrote > rupture. Outside of that, maintain garrote and rupture and use envenom in between. You should only use your exang once more before combining it again with vendetta
- Stealth
- Garrote
- Mutilate (to 4 or 5 CPs don't mutilate at 4 CPs)
- Rupture
- Vendetta
- On use trinket if you have one
- Mutilate
- Toxic blade
- Mutilate (if you need to get to 4 or 5 CPs)
- Envenom
- Mutilate until 4 or 5 CPs
- Envenom
- Vanish
- Garrote
- Mutilate
- Pause to pool energy
- Refresh rupture
.
.
.
Doing this off memory but I've done it so many times that I'm pretty sure it is mistake free. Dominate single target DPS.
- Garrote
- Mutilate (to 4 or 5 CPs don't mutilate at 4 CPs)
- Rupture
- Vendetta
- On use trinket if you have one
- Mutilate
- Toxic blade
- Mutilate (if you need to get to 4 or 5 CPs)
- Envenom
- Mutilate until 4 or 5 CPs
- Envenom
- Vanish
- Garrote
- Mutilate
- Pause to pool energy
- Refresh rupture
.
.
.
Doing this off memory but I've done it so many times that I'm pretty sure it is mistake free. Dominate single target DPS.
I recently started simming my opener after reading the recommendation off another recent thread. Made a world of difference & I'd probably urge you to sim it anytime you make a gear or Talent change. I'm not the best geared rogue out there but I still 14.5-15.5k on 5 of 8 Uldir H fights using simmed rotations.
Your ilvl is good but your gear is terribly optimized. You really will do a lot less damage than other rogues with similar ilvl. I know the rng struggle, but these are the bits you need to prioritize.
1) you don't have a single shrouded suffocation trait. It's great in all pve situations. Garrote always does over 40% of my damage, single target or not. And I only have 1 of it. I wish I had 2.
2) unless you're only putting it on for m+, get rid of the blood rite shoulders. Haste is our top stat, but that trait is terrible for raids. Reaaaally below average for m+.
3) you're using 2 of the worst possible trinkets to use. To put it into perspective, I have a 385 socketed construct overcharger, and I use fathoms instead of it. Get fathoms and dice/PvP trinket/spyglass/galecallers.
4) switch to elaborate planning over master poisoner. Notice that master poisoner affects your WEAPON poisons, not all your poisons, while elaborate planning affects everything. Enough time for toxic blade and 1 or 2 globals all while your dots tick higher for those few seconds.
Do all of these and I guarantee your dps will become a lot higher.
1) you don't have a single shrouded suffocation trait. It's great in all pve situations. Garrote always does over 40% of my damage, single target or not. And I only have 1 of it. I wish I had 2.
2) unless you're only putting it on for m+, get rid of the blood rite shoulders. Haste is our top stat, but that trait is terrible for raids. Reaaaally below average for m+.
3) you're using 2 of the worst possible trinkets to use. To put it into perspective, I have a 385 socketed construct overcharger, and I use fathoms instead of it. Get fathoms and dice/PvP trinket/spyglass/galecallers.
4) switch to elaborate planning over master poisoner. Notice that master poisoner affects your WEAPON poisons, not all your poisons, while elaborate planning affects everything. Enough time for toxic blade and 1 or 2 globals all while your dots tick higher for those few seconds.
Do all of these and I guarantee your dps will become a lot higher.
10/31/2018 09:49 AMPosted by GghaxYour ilvl is good but your gear is terribly optimized. You really will do a lot less damage than other rogues with similar ilvl. I know the rng struggle, but these are the bits you need to prioritize.
1) you don't have a single shrouded suffocation trait. It's great in all pve situations. Garrote always does over 40% of my damage, single target or not. And I only have 1 of it. I wish I had 2.
2) unless you're only putting it on for m+, get rid of the blood rite shoulders. Haste is our top stat, but that trait is terrible for raids. Reaaaally below average for m+.
3) you're using 2 of the worst possible trinkets to use. To put it into perspective, I have a 385 socketed construct overcharger, and I use fathoms instead of it. Get fathoms and dice/PvP trinket/spyglass/galecallers.
4) switch to elaborate planning over master poisoner. Notice that master poisoner affects your WEAPON poisons, not all your poisons, while elaborate planning affects everything. Enough time for toxic blade and 1 or 2 globals all while your dots tick higher for those few seconds.
Do all of these and I guarantee your dps will become a lot higher.
Great post man; I'm going to try and adopt these changes
Just to follow up with my second question, are there diminishing returns with secondary stats? Should I ALWAYS prioritize haste?
10/31/2018 11:20 PMPosted by DeadkynJust to follow up with my second question, are there diminishing returns with secondary stats? Should I ALWAYS prioritize haste?
Short answer, sort of. You can stack enough of one stat to cause the others to jump up in value over haste, but haste will still be worth wearing. Gotta sim yourself to find out.
To sim yourself and get your stat weights, go to raidbots.com, select "stat weights", import your character using the SimC addon or just doing an armory search, then run the sim. This will show you how much 1 point of each stat ups your dps. That should be how you decide what gear to wear.
10/31/2018 09:49 AMPosted by Gghax
1) you don't have a single shrouded suffocation trait. It's great in all pve situations. Garrote always does over 40% of my damage, single target or not. And I only have 1 of it. I wish I had 2.
Why is it so good, or worth stacking. Is the damage applied always not just for use from stealth as suggested on the tooltip? How does it interact with subterfuge... which says you only get the 80% bonus from stealth or obviously with vanish, which is essentially one extra in every six uses (ST).
Also people mention using it twice, I just can't see where in game it shows any benefit to doing this. Not saying it doesn't but just trying to work out where people get this info.
11/01/2018 05:27 AMPosted by Kinnslayerr10/31/2018 09:49 AMPosted by Gghax
1) you don't have a single shrouded suffocation trait. It's great in all pve situations. Garrote always does over 40% of my damage, single target or not. And I only have 1 of it. I wish I had 2.
Why is it so good, or worth stacking. Is the damage applied always not just for use from stealth as suggested on the tooltip? How does it interact with subterfuge... which says you only get the 80% bonus from stealth or obviously with vanish, which is essentially one extra in every six uses (ST).
Also people mention using it twice, I just can't see where in game it shows any benefit to doing this. Not saying it doesn't but just trying to work out where people get this info.
- Shrouded Suffocation -
Garrote is a significant amount of total damage. Shrouded suffocation increases garrote damage along with Subterfuge.
There is also the two additional combo points that allows for a quick rupture after the first garrote. Since you ruptured you proc'ed Elaborate Planning (10%) damage increase to your second garrote.
On your second garrote you are receiving 10% from EP, 80% from Subterfuge, and another boost from shrouded suffocation.
- Double Garrote -
I would assume that the double garrote then rupture allows rupture to benefit longer from the damage increase from Shrouded Suffocation and also get you to a 5-point rupture.
Cool thanks, I had to look for a third party as the wording of Shrouded Suffocation made me thing the damage boost was also tied to stealth. I'm used to the combo point bonus mainly because it's so great for general soloing.
Shrouded Suffocation is really only good in mythic+ where you get to re-stealth between packs and then tab garrote 3 different mobs. For raiding you want 1 piece with Archive of the titans and the other 2 with double dose. Dagger in the back is decent as well if you cant get double dose. Overwhelming Power is a very strong secondary trait as well if your trying decide what gear to use. A piece with dagger in the back and overwhelming power is better than a piece with double dose and a crappy secondary trait. Don't use Shrouded Suffocation on raid bosses.
Mastery might help with the damage. I noticed you had crit as a priority.
11/01/2018 05:43 PMPosted by KinnslayerrCool thanks, I had to look for a third party as the wording of Shrouded Suffocation made me thing the damage boost was also tied to stealth. I'm used to the combo point bonus mainly because it's so great for general soloing.
The damage boost is tied to stealth... its just that between vanish and subterfuge you can re-apply the enormously buffed garrotes and do massive damage during the windows. It is primarily used in M+, stacking 3x of the trait, as you can frequently restealth and get 3 applications out of stealth but its not that bad in raiding if you run exsang.
For stat weights, get into the habit of simming your own as they change quite a bit as you get upgrades. I personally use raidbots and run the 5 min 1 boss Patchwerk for my raiding stats and 1 min 4 boss Patchwerk with buffs disabled for my M+ weights.
I would highly recommend checking out http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/ for opener guides etc... as there are various optimal openers depending on what talents and azerite traits you run. The openers are all pretty similar so its easy to learn however there are important differences.
10/31/2018 09:49 AMPosted by GghaxYour ilvl is good but your gear is terribly optimized. You really will do a lot less damage than other rogues with similar ilvl. I know the rng struggle, but these are the bits you need to prioritize.
1) you don't have a single shrouded suffocation trait. It's great in all pve situations. Garrote always does over 40% of my damage, single target or not. And I only have 1 of it. I wish I had 2.
2) unless you're only putting it on for m+, get rid of the blood rite shoulders. Haste is our top stat, but that trait is terrible for raids. Reaaaally below average for m+.
3) you're using 2 of the worst possible trinkets to use. To put it into perspective, I have a 385 socketed construct overcharger, and I use fathoms instead of it. Get fathoms and dice/PvP trinket/spyglass/galecallers.
4) switch to elaborate planning over master poisoner. Notice that master poisoner affects your WEAPON poisons, not all your poisons, while elaborate planning affects everything. Enough time for toxic blade and 1 or 2 globals all while your dots tick higher for those few seconds.
Do all of these and I guarantee your dps will become a lot higher.
does this work for pvp as well? should i be stacking shrouded suffocation or scented blood for pvp? I was thinking 2x scented blood 1x shrouded suffocation but is that the wrong stack? also should i switch over to elaborate planning rather than master poisoner in pvp or even blindside?
Get 1 x shrouded minimum
Use subterfuge talent
Open with: garrote > rupture > garrotte > mut > rupture (this lengthens your bleeds to max duration) after that pop your DPS macro (vendetta + trinket) mut > toxic blade > envenom > mut 1 or 2 depending > envenom.
When garrote is about to fall off pool some energy and literally rinse and repeat with vanish.
Elaborate planning and vigor talents are a must.
Use subterfuge talent
Open with: garrote > rupture > garrotte > mut > rupture (this lengthens your bleeds to max duration) after that pop your DPS macro (vendetta + trinket) mut > toxic blade > envenom > mut 1 or 2 depending > envenom.
When garrote is about to fall off pool some energy and literally rinse and repeat with vanish.
Elaborate planning and vigor talents are a must.