Raids and Dungeons
Lady Jaina Proudmoore
But not Aspect of the Turtle. What the fck is that sht? Why do we still have this piece of sht defensive?
So just because it doesnt work in 1 boss fight is now a bad defensive? Rofl.
It is a bad defensive CD for many reasons.
I didnt go raid for a while but I can explain aspect of turtle(=turtle) based on my experience.
If hunter does not have debuff/dot at all then turtle can deflect those.
But if hunter already got debuff, dot then turtle cannot deflect those.
If that skill from above is kind of dot/debuff, then turtle cannot deflect.
Does Posthaste not work?
Have you tested it? The post says “e.g.” which means it’s giving examples, but not necessarily an exhaustive list. My guild currently only does mythic, so I haven’t tested it.
Before the patch I remember Turtle would prevent getting iceblocked even at 20 stacks. So it might count as an immunity for stack clearing purposes as well.
However, turtle has never removed debuffs that were already applied. I wouldn’t be surprised if it doesn’t clear stacks.
Hey, at least Turtle immunes debuff application. Netherwalk is literally just damage immunity. Can’t be used against a lot of things that even turtle can, because debuffs can still apply straight through it.
Good example of this? Gigavolt Charge on Mekka. Turtle prevents that application of the nasty DoT when it expires. Netherwalk does not. Really the only significant mechanics Netherwalk is useful against in BoD are Coin Shower on Opulence and Winds on Conclave.
Exactly, but for some reason that i don’t understand someone thinks is a bad defensive.
Raiding…
As if that is the only thing that exists in this game.
For MM in PvP it extends life by 8 seconds, sometimes much less since AoE and Dots still kill you. Even if you have a healer handy it doesn’t deter like deterrence did, since it has only one charge and a 3 min CD. It gives no damage immunity. It gives no speed boost. You are very ineffective during it since most likely you have used everything you can use already, and turtle is your last resort. It provides just this shy of nothing in situations where most damage CDs shine. Off the top of my head I can’t think of a class I wouldn’t trade this category of CD with. And that’s a straight trade, nevermind all those other classes I am thinking of have multiple other more useful tools in comparable categories.
No, Mythic+ exist too and is pretty damn good there too.
So is good in raiding, good in mythic+ and you say it ain’t in PvP. So good in 2 of 3 top level content?
Meh. I admit my bias. I only care about PvP (and raiding to a smaller extent).
I’d bet that it isn’t better than most defensive CD’s in those particular PvE environments regardless. It just might not “suck”. I’m sure there are particular cases where it shines, and those where it doesn’t, just like all other damage CDs. I’d also bet it was way better when it was two charges of deterrence, just like in PvP.
Except, you know, Netherwalk. Because while it gives you a speed boost, it only lasts 5 seconds, it requires a talent (and that requires sacrificing ~50% of your self-healing potential), and it doesn’t prevent or remove debuffs, so you can be snared, stunned, etc to completely negate the speed/escape effect.
Now, don’t get me wrong, I’m not trying to compare MM and Havoc here. I’m just saying that Netherwalk is a very good example of a defensive that is in almost every situation inferior to Turtle.
And thats fine man, if anything i give you props for admiting. I could say the same that i don’t care about PvP, i got to 1,900 close to 2K in RBG’s last season with my guild as a hunter so im not the most experienced one tho then i used it gave me time to get my team to catch up and help.
You would probably be losing a lot of money there man, i wouldn’t recommend you to make that bet ![:laughing:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/laughing.png?v=6" ":laughing:")
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Actually is pretty damn good, by no means is perfect. I mean the only defensive i would call that would be a paladin bubble which is a complete immunity that allows you to DPS without an issue.
Whenever you use it on PvE, it shines my friend.
No arguing there, deterrence was pretty damn strong thats why it got changed.
I have used both. In PvP Netherwalk has proven to me to be superior, not counting the fact that it competes with another useful talent (if only MM had such problems!)
In fact, Netherwalk was one of the ones I was thinking of specifically. I’m not saying what you said was untrue, and maybe it just compliments Havoc’s toolkit better, but Netherwalk has proven to be useful for both escaping and surviving more often than Turtle has proven to be in my experience. Take that with a grain of salt, as I have a more experience with Turtle than Netherwalk.
But how? In literally ever area except movement speed, it’s inferior to Turtle.
To highlight above, Turtle is one of the 4 immunities that let you cheese so many mechanics. It’s massively better than most defensives. Now, the hunter overall defensive toolkit isn’t that terribly strong (I miss the hell out of my 60s CD 35% DR Blur and my super-leech when I’m playing my hunter), but they aren’t weak on defensives, and Turtle itself is insanely strong in PvE content.
We are weak on defensives cause thats our only defensive lmao. Otherwise we get destroyed by the melee classes most of the time cause of the lack of damage mitigations. DH’s have blur, darkness & can even fly & cast that OP spell they have. Feelsbadman
Survival of the Fittest and Exhilaration are non-trivial.
Masochism forgot to mention one thing: you can’t attack while Aspect is up. So while other classes can interrupt their DPS priority system with a quick “fire and forget” application of their defensive, hunters have to apply AotT, then take it off in order to resume DPS.
So at best, I’m using a three-minute CD for one second of damage reduction.
Literally the only immunities in the game that you can attack during are Cloak and Bubble (and BoP, if you count it, though it’s physical-only). Ice Block, Turtle, and Netherwalk all prevent a ability usage during them.
Though it should be noted, Turtle prevents attacking. You can still use things like Disengage and Cheetah. Netherwalk notably prevents usage of even Vengeful Retreat and Fel Rush (probably because the devs consider them “attacks”, even though they are literally never used for their damage).
Most of those other defensives are more akin to Survival of the Fittest, a fire-and-forget 20% DR.
With Netherwalk I can still be stunned and snared, but I am no where near them, so how can they stun or snare me? I use Vengeful Retreat -> Netherwalk and I’m gone, and they are super snared. I can’t be damaged so dots won’t kill me, Meteor won’t kill me. If 4 people are on me I can get away, at least some times. With turtle that is never true (even with just 2 melee on me).
This is a PvE thing. An immunity that makes you mostly helpless is mostly useless in PvP. It’s real benefit is to make someone be bored with waiting for it to fall off, and thus pick another target. That was what made double deterrence so great. Knowing there was ANOTHER deterrence right after the first one if they kept on the target made Hunters undesirable to target in the first place. It was the psychological effect of Hunters as a target that would induce boredom that was their best defense. That was gone with Turtle.
They have the weakest defensive toolkit in the game for ranged DPS in PvP. I’m not sure what you are talking about.