I wanted to put together a thread specifically about this so as to not derail any others with it. The goal here is to document the various interactions that don’t seem to make sense. I finally set up twitch studio to record some of these tests so that you guys can see what I’m doing and critique me if I set up the test incorrectly.
Blade flurry (credit to bandit and verian on this one, as I didn’t need to recreate it):
Trick shots:
Warbringer + Sweeping Strikes:
As you can see, blade flurry, trick shots, and warbringer all go through turtle regardless of when turtle was cast or when the abilities were cast into turtle. There’s no timing or anything. Interestingly, sweeping strikes does not behave the same way.
Spell tooltips:
Nothing about these spell interactions is consistent. Turtle deflecting a charge but not the warbringer that procs from it does not make a lot of sense. Sweeping strikes missing but trick shots and blade flurry going through does not make sense. At best, this is horribly inconsistent. IMO this is more than that, it’s just flat out bugged. There are probably more interactions that I don’t know about as well, so feel free to list them out or test them. One that I didn’t get a chance to record was splitting ice with frost mage, which behaves like sweeping strikes (doesn’t go through turtle).
Either way, the general consensus is that things cast after turtle should not go through turtle. Hopefully these videos make it clear enough that none of these interactions are behaving strangely because they were cast before turtle.
Isn’t deflect coded as a parry affect that works vs magic.
Just some descriptions of it i’ve seen since Deterrence/Turtle are the only instance of “deflect” I’ve seen in the game.
I have no idea how it works or the coding involved, my best guess is that its a vestigial mech that was reliable back when you could vanish coil and stuff.
2nd guess is they code stuff in a way for either flavor or to save time like why did ring of peace knock tranq but thunderstorm cam
Why ring of peace DR thunderstorm but thunderstorm doesnt DR ringe of peace? Why doesnt Thunderstorm and blastwave DR at all?
3rd guess is bladeflurry and sweeping strikes are auras that roll vs the main target’s defense (parry/dodge/damage redux) but ignore 2ndary targets so these cds dont have to roll vs multiple targets.
I think part of the rub is how critical this ability is and how it breaks. Like take into consideration the thread about this weekend’s final match between liquid and luminosity or whoever it was. One of the highlights from that series being the fact that each player involved clutch lived at 1% or less at some point. Having something as critical as turtle suffer from such a plethora of obscure/buggy interactions is just really significant in that context. Even moreso when you take into consideration hunter as a whole being nearly as prone to 100-0 as mage. The example where Jaime got killed through turtle was definitely avoidable had he not trusted ams and just turtled one global before he tried to, but you can also rewind multiple examples of the finals match where those clutch 1% lives didn’t necessarily have to be 1% lives had they used something sooner. The thing that killed jaime through turtle isn’t exactly documented anywhere like the other things.
No, its coded as a 200% miss chance to attackers and a 200% chance to deflect spells
edit: As far as I can tell, the difference between sweeping strikes and trick shots/blade flurry, is that sweeping strikes specifically uses a flat modifier to spell targets, whereas trick shots and blade flurry use a dummy effect due to talents that can change the target amount. Dancing steel and light/heavy ammo then change the target modifier, but maybe the dummy effect on the main talent is what causes it to not miss?
Maybe, maybe not. You wouldn’t really be able to tell without a debugging console to look at the actual functions being called and what’s being passed in and calculated against turtle on the other end. The high level question being is it intended/is it supposed to work that way?
It doesn’t seem like the deciding factor in whether something cleaves through turtle or not should be whether it has a talent that modifies it in any way. Thats a bug.
