Ascensionist Forsaken

The ascensionist mentality is understandable. Every system of governance in history has broken down at some point. To try a new system is just another lateral move which will work for a time, but it is doomed to fail as well. Moving up might be the way forward. To be guided by spiritual values and in time, evolve to a higher state of being.

Those who take this stance are inclined to accept any new leadership, whether it be a new monarch or representative body. However, to ensure successful governance there must be a shadow which is ever present. The Forgotten Shadow must be the guiding principle with which to rule.

Would this be best for the Forsaken? Will the followers of Light hender prosperity? What is your take?

My Brother in Christ, why did you make all these independent threads instead of a single one?

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For easy organization.

It’s clutter.

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I suppose if someone did that for something i didn’t care about like Alliance RP, I would see it as clutter too.

Definitely not doing that again.

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Could be fun honestly. A Forsaken Theocracy (or at least heavily religiously influenced government) would be REALLY fun to play with in terms of RP.

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Not sure what faction lines have to do with anything. Do I need to swap to my Horde to voice my displeasure at a bunch of same-y topics?

I have no issue with the content. I take umbrage with the crowding of a public space. Other people’s discussions/adverts/RP event announcements got pushed down a considerable amount as a result.

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Recently I’ve seen a conversation that the religion of the light could still be widely adopted by the Forsaken under Calia. Basically it’s because it was the religion of the former living.

We know the Forsaken haven’t really been involved with religion at all, but if we were to start, I think the shadow has a stronger chance. The light failed us in life, the light burns us in unlife, and the shadow has been the sort of stand in since undeath.

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Oh I’d much rather the Shadow, in its true nuanced form, as the main religion of the Forsaken. Though I can absolutely see the Light as an accepted minority faith.

Having Calia as leader will definitely create light worshipping Forsaken minority. I think the nuanced Shadow would allow and even welcome the practice along side it because of balance and all.

This is where Blizzard can leave it too. That way if later they decide to do light v shadow expansion, they will have had an area in Azeroth where the two had been doing fine side by side, but now has the relationship strained by the light extremist apostles.

Bah. Just give the Cult of the Forgotten stuff to do.

It’s lore in the old tabletop RPG is so cool. There’s Lightslayers which is essentially what Voss is and Shadow Ascendants which are Priests with Danny Phantom powers. Plus it’s got a cool, vaguely Taoist philosophy about balance. It’s not really a Shadow centric philosophy, stresses balance between Darkness and Light.

In the game the CotFS has maybe, what 5 quests pre Legion counting both pre and post Cata Tirisfal. Then in Legion it’s fallen apart off screen and that kinda speaks to how much lore it gets as I main an undead Priest and never noticed. Then it’s allegedly back but has continued to be a non presence in the storyline.

At the very least they better yet me have one of those Sith Pope hats the Dark Clerics in Tirisfal wear.

I’m fine with Light worshipping undead but ya figure they’d go work for the Argent Crusade. I kinda always figured thats what the undead in their ranks were.

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This, honestly. Could be the religion fan in me; I find the diversity of IRL human supernatural belief fascinating to research. But I’d frankly like to see all the major Azerothian religions fleshed out and organised somewhat.

Like, Legion’s revelation that the Cult of the Forgotten Shadow collapsed was incredibly frustrating. I’d like to see it codified. Give us a Shadow Pope, a hierarchy of Bishops, Priests and monastic orders. Maybe not with those titles, but the faith itself would be much more fascinating to engage with in RP if it actually had a structure.

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If it were up to me I’d have the CotFS be the dominant religion, and give them churches with some reworked Venthyr assets. That sort of crypt cathedral vibe would be perfect for them.

Then there’d be a minority of Light worshippers. Many of whom go to service in Hearthglen but live in Andorhal. I’d also have a minority who worship Loa. Hi’Reek, Shadra, Jani and Bwomsamdi would probably be popular amongst some swaths of the Forsaken.

Then I’d have a more concerning religious view based around the Cult of the Damned. Undeath was their eternal life reward for service afterall. So having a sort of inverted Scarlet Crusade, undead supremacist Cult could be fun.

That’s what I did with my DK. RP’ed her as a 2nd Generation fallen Paladin DK. Saw undeath as a great blessing. We see in Deathknell not everyone can handle the transition, some just become mindless zombies. And more still never had the iron will to break free when the Lich King’s power waned.

Doesn’t seem to matter who you were before. Nathanos was a highly educated, highly accomplished huntsman who managed to impress the Quel’Dorei Ranger General. And he couldn’t break free from the Lich King. But Gretchen Dedmar, a senile old lady, could. To her it was the perfect barometer to determine who was worthy and who was not.

All Hail The New Flesh

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Yes, yes, and sort of yes. Since the Forsaken have a few different races and a few tribes of those races among their ranks, allowing institutions of various religions would work well. Sort of like the Persians in RL allowing all faiths under their empire.

You are saying duration under LK influence and state of decay are more important factors to regaining independence than will power alone? Because I have believed that.

It’d be interesting to see a third shift in Forsaken core values. They started out hungry for revenge, then moved on from that to surviving in a world that despises them, earned or not. The third core shift for the race could be in the wake of the Shadowlands. We’ve seen it now. We also know that becoming Forsaken is not necessarily instant damnation, unlike how it’s been hinted in the past.

Religious values regarding death, for better or for worse, are inevitably going to change now that we’ve seen that: Souls are judged by an Arbiter. Souls are then sent to the best* afterlife deemed by said Arbiter and the main function afterlives are themed around redemption, reincarnation (only for gods though), transportation, and defense. No longer is it as simple as what you believed prior.

*Best for the soul, best for the Shadowlands, or best for maximizing anima potential?

Either way, everyone’s thinking about death and likely restructuring their values around it. Some people might not approve of this. Traditions are difficult to shift in a single generation. So perhaps Azerothian would like something a bit more familiar that places choice into their hands. Thomas Zelling stands as an example here.

Maybe under a less aggressive mindset the Forsaken could present themselves as an “alternative afterlife”. Prior to Shadowlands, undeath and the Scourge were seen as manifestations of death itself, after all. Why not present it as exactly that, a new death?

If you know you’re dying and you don’t like your fate being decided by another, go to Lordaeron and become raised as a Forsaken. Or set that in your will. Or your family can decide if you never indicated either way. Worst comes to worst they put you back down if you rise up and don’t like it.

It also stands as a logical evolution to the newer mindset by Forsaken that they would like to remain in the world and need to reproduce in order to do so. This time without forcing it on others.

I could see this becoming more spiritual too. As was mentioned earlier in the thread, imagine a sort of Cult of Forgotten Shadow/Dark Catholic style faith where you undergo very symbolic and grandiose rituals regarding the rebirth of another into a new Forsaken, or the returning of Forsaken to the veil.

Add to it some complex theology regarding other facets of their stewardships over death, like visitation rights for living, and you have a very fascinating and deep system with lots to explore. Imagine as well what relationship you might have between the state and the faith. Who’s calling the shots? Is it shared? Or is it entirely a theology?

Lordaeron could become this strange, death haven that treats itself as “above mortals” and truly like a whacky successor to an afterlife system they do not seek to participate in. Maybe even the prevalence of necrotic magic would truly begin to transform the land. Borders become static and eventually both undead and living settle into a mindset of leaving both worlds alone.

Of course not everyone believes in a world of sunshine and happiness though and both living and dead might not be content with this setup, leading to some good ol stories from that.

I agree people would, but as not everyone got to officially go to Shadowlands, I think the gatekeepers would not share that info to prevent people from exploiting it.

I’ve always wanted this mindset since Cata, but right now we have no means to make more. I think.

The rest of this take is a nice read. I will love to see people start to consider this more after hearing it at the event.

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We actually need to have Cult of Forgotten Shadows sermons on this server again. Especially now more than ever.

If Calia sets up a church of the light for the Forsaken, then i think we will see alot more cult of Forgotten Shadow sermons and related RP. If the light becomes something she tries to convert us to, Nos is absolutely going to be preaching that she is a Naru plant.

And now look! We have a Cult of Forgotten Shadows guild growing and a Calia growing more suspicious looking.