Stuff like this is why I don’t have the energy to get into organised group content in this game.
If it’s a team of 5 then everyone’s job is to do what they can to contribute to the group’s success. DPS done by healers and tanks still contributes to killing the mobs. Health healed by tanks and DPS still increases the HP of group members. etc etc.
In raids. In Mytbic+, you have infinitely scaling enemy health pools so you never reach the stage of “too much damage” to trivialize mechanics.
I do (admittedly casually) and I did back when I raided seriously in Wrath. I made sure I could find those windows to put out as much damage as I could between healing requirements.
And the support contributing DPS further helps DPS because DPS is always a desireable thing to add to a group. There is never a downside to ‘more damage’ because encounters end when the boss hits 0%.
You’re right, the vast majority of support players will never see a key that high. But why wait until that point to practice? Even if you can’t necessarily time the key, you’ll still be a much more valuable player than someone who decides doing damage isn’t worth their time. This whole mantra of ‘healers only heal’ poisons the support mindset and makes them completely one-dimensional in their approach to problems.
The fact of the matter is that the run took 1 minute less than it would have otherwise. That can be a huge difference. Even if the problem DH played optimally, the HPriest still shaved a minute off the run by themselves.
Again, a support player that can contribute DPS to a group will always, bar none, be more valuable to groups than a support player that cannot. There’s no discussion here. Poisoning the well with ‘well it’s only necessary for high-end content’ is an attempt to justify bad habits and lack of practice in the environments where you really, really want to be practicing and establishing good habits.
Support DPS is damage all the same, and more damage is always better than less damage.
Then don’t queue for M+ and form your own teams if you don’t want the pressure to perform. Otherwise, it’s entirely reasonable for groups to expect you to have an understanding and proficiency with the entire kit of your class, damage abilities included.
You weren’t going to wholesale skip mechanics in the first place, and more damage will still serve better and end encounters faster than less damage.
EDIT: Like, holy crap I did not count on the amount of thin-skinned ‘healers’ that this bait thread would get, that’s why I was low-effort posting with some of the responders above.
Right, no rallying cry or AMZ or lust or battle rezzes or lock cookies, demonic gateways, anything like that
just dps, nothing else
In practice it doesn’t though. You just push higher keys if your DPS can handle it, unless you’re just filling your Vault, in which case you were probably running trivial content anyways and it doesn’t matter how anyone performs.
In all instances it does, though. A support that knows and is willing to do damage between healing needs is going to remain more valuable at all levels of play. The HPriest from the example above can literally go to any group and say ‘Take me because I can lower your M+ time by a minute.’ and that’s an amazing sell.
Even in cases where failure isn’t a real possibility, you’re still making it take longer by not doing damage when the entire goal of the encounter is to defeat the enemy and get your loot. If I had the choice between a support player that does DPS and a support player that doesn’t, I’d go with the one that does every single time because there are literally no downsides.
I might counter this with a “Then do not complain when healers are not around any more”. BTW, after reading all of these anti-healer threads I would never consider healing in this game. I’ll get that fix in ffxiv where people are more appreciative.
The only healers that would leave are bad ones
Win win, no?
I think you may have missed the sarcasm of the post.
It’s quite clearly an anti-“healers should only have to heal” thread.
Press taunt on cd and if they pull threat between cds it’s their own fault and they should manage their threat better 
You do know that FFXIV support classes are still very much expected to DPS, right? FFXIV groups will chew you out if you start slacking on WHM DPS.
So you haven’t done high level keys healing? You should give it a try…it can only help you to understand others plight.
There is when there’s a risk reward to it, it’s all fun and games until someone dies and now you’ve wasted time over a tiny bit of DPS. Of course, more DPS is never a bad thing but at the same time it’s not that big of a deal either. (In most cases for most of the pop)
Some truth to that but only cause the DPS in the group might be afraid they can’t push out enough DMG to compete the run, so they want to try and hedge their bets and have a healer that can put out a little DPS.
Is first and foremost keeping people alive, everything else is secondary…if the group is taking a lot of dmg, isn’t able to push enough DPS its not the healers job to compensate for DPS that can’t pull their own weight and maybe shouldn’t be doing those high of keys.
Just so you know, when I heal, I’ll throw out dmg when there’s nothing to heal…but I’ve also been playing for a long time, quick enough most of the time to do it and feel comfortable but can understand why other healers might be tepid about it or not feel the reward outweighs the risk.
1 min is being generous…but it doesn’t matter because it didn’t make a “huge difference” because they would’ve beat it anyway. Shaving off 30 seconds to a min wasn’t that big of a deal and it didn’t make or break anything, it was just an added bonus by good players playing together knowing that they can do that.
The DH could’ve played better and shaved off 2-3 minutes…but it wasn’t that big of a deal either cause the boss was at 0% and they beat the timer.
It’s a game, in the end its about having fun not being perfect. Healers and DPS should just try their best and have fun. I understand some people take WoW way to seriously and that’s their right but sometimes you just have to step back and remember it’s a game…
No offence intended, but why should people be appreciative of players putting in a mediocre amount of effort and only utilising 50% of a classes abilities?
It’s obviously a joke thread, but I’d imagine you wouldn’t be appreciative of other roles just not binding and using interrupts, defensives, and CC etc because it “isn’t their role”.
I don’t understand why some people feel like some roles should be held to a certain standard whilst others are allowed a much lower standard.
Some would argue that the risk/reward is what makes it fun.
If you aren’t pushing the limits of what you can achieve then you don’t really improve.
It’s the same with dps as well, you practice and push the limits of avoiding mechanics whilst keeping the highest uptime.
That’s why players have such skill disparities, it’s experience to know how much uptime you can push without consequence, or which mechanics you can gimmick or abuse to benefit your role.
If you want to believe that. So be it… does this look familiar? One group with a healer, so many without (and this is only one screen of many.
For the healers who think they shouldn’t have to press their DPS buttons, riddle me this: What on earth are you doing when no one needs to be healed? Just sitting there? Overhealing? Why wouldn’t you spend that downtime contributing to ending encounters faster?
Yes I do, and FFXIV fights are set up to support this model. WoW is not. FFXIV fights have very predictable damage and to be honest, the players are better because they follow mechanics and know how to avoid damage.
In WoW, most of the melee will stand in the damage so they can pad their meters. Imagine if the healers dps’d during predictable damage in WoW. The entire melee team would be dead.
You’ve never timed a 15, so how would you understand others plight?
In an actual high level key, the entire group works together and uses their whole toolkit. And that includes Healers doing DPS.
No I haven’t, not a big fan of M+ but I have done some 8’s and 10’s(Pugs) and that’s plenty for myself. At that point dmg is quick and spiky and not a lot of downtime to DPS. Also DPS/Tanks standing in stuff and not interrupting along with not pushing out enough DPS along with not doing the mechanics. Have done a 13 on my other account though as DPS that was a cakewalk…all I had to do was DPS/Interrupt and not stand in stuff.
Not saying that isn’t the case, in fact like the video I posted the healer was doing just that but that extra 7k wasn’t really needed and really didn’t do much. So yes it might make the group feel better and the healers doing it, but the reality is it didn’t really help much. It wasn’t make or break and it’s not the reason why some healers can’t get into higher keys.
So does WoW.
That’s fair, and if they need more healing, then heal them.
Noone is saying healers shouldn’t heal, or shouldn’t prioritise healing at all.
That’s where skill is involved, you know predictable damage is coming up so you prepare for it.
It would be incorrect for you to continue to do damage whilst knowing players are taking a lot of predictable damage.
I don’t have the reflexes or the time to focus on and research for M+, and it’s out of respect to those that want to progress through it that I don’t engage in the activity. I have done raid healing however, and have done healing in dungeons in this expansion as well. If there are gaps where I’m not needing to heal the tank or my party, then I absolutely start hammering that Smite button until I do have to heal someone.
There is when there’s a risk reward to it, it’s all fun and games until someone dies and now you’ve wasted time over a tiny bit of DPS. Of course, more DPS is never a bad thing but at the same time it’s not that big of a deal either.
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It’s still better than not having that DPS. Again, part of the reason you practice this early is so you have an easier time acclimating to the windows of higher difficulties. Yes, those windows will shrink, but it’s not just you focusing on keeping your team alive, your DPS and Tanks have mitigation of their own that they should be using to keep themselves upright both to ease the strain on a support that’s struggling and widen the damage window for a support that’s doing well.
Some truth to that but only cause the DPS in the group might be afraid they can’t push out enough DMG to compete the run, so they want to try and hedge their bets and have a healer that can put out a little DPS.
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Even if you were the bomb-dot-com of DPS, you’d still want the player that can contribute DPS because it makes the instance faster. Unless they were a personal friend of mine or I had literally no other choice, if I’m presented with a support that can’t (or won’t) DPS versus a support that will, 100% I go with option B. It’s not even a choice.
Keeping the team alive isn’t a ‘good habit’ it’s the ‘bare minimum’. A ‘good habit’ is learning how to avoid overhealing. A ‘great habit’ is learning to read the rate of hp depletion for your party so you get more comfortable with using Smites or Holy Fire versus just SWP.
That’s part of raising the floor and making sure that players that want the support role understand that they will be asked to do this. It’s not fair to new support players to be told ‘oh you’re the healer you just heal’ and then slam into a wall of groups that expect them to have learned how to hit their Smite button sometime along the 70 levels they’ve played.
And that translates across all play; from M+ to raids to instances to open world content, the more capable you are with pumping damage, the faster the fights will go and the smoother the experience will be. So practicing using your damage buttons alongside your healing buttons will be of great use throughout the character’s entire career.
And the Priest’s DPS performance gave the group that much more padding in case something did go wrong which, again, makes that player far more valuable than someone unwilling to go through the lengths necessary to possibly shave a minute off a run.
I agree that everyone should try their best and have the most fun they can, but my issue is that the well is being poisoned by the mentality of ‘oh healers don’t dps until high keys’ when the mentality should be ‘good healers dps, so you should practice early’. The latter sets up the player to succeed and know what’s expected of them, the former encourages bad habits that will haunt the player once they reach high enough.
Now, if they’re playing with their own custom group and doing their own thing, then fair play, they can be as inefficient as they like. But if they’re going to join the M+ population, they need to be ready to be judged by those standards, and one such standard is ‘can you DPS while healing’.