As a Community, we want RDF

You could make the same argument about lots of things. Everyone should have 280% speed flying mounts from level 1, because running slowly from quest to quest is not fun. Hearthstones should have unlimited use and teleport you to any inn, because travelling between different cities and hubs is not fun. Changing professions should instantly level you to max, because running around the old world grinding is not fun.

Maybe you would agree with all of the above changes. You should do because - objectively - they all improve QOL from timesink activities.

For better or worse, the ‘negative’ aspects of MMOs also contribute to the sense of community and accomplishment. An MMO that gave you everything you want up-front is unlikely to survive. It’s always a balancing act.

So your issue isn’t with the tool. It’s with the playerbase and how gamers have changed with time which explains perfectly why you’re intent on ruining it for others.

Simple fact is you don’t have to use it. You will use it because deep inside you are a min-maxing, tryhard, peak efficient desiring player. You changed with the rest of us, bud. Stop tryin to live in black and white when OLED color is out.

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Its the perfect comparison to your argument of “Just because something is added into the game you are not forced to use it so it should be added into the game because i like it”.

People said the same thing with LFR and blizzard regretted it. If blizzard adds in more pay to win elements into the store im sure there will be people like you using the same argument of “You are not forced to buy it”

No, that’s not what I’m saying. I’m saying there are specific improvements that should be in the game.

Case in point: ask people the best version of wow. Most say wotlk… So the aggregate of qol improvements from vanilla or tbc made the game better. The same is not true beyond wotlk for the inverse reason, and RDF was there when the game was most highly regarded.

False, once it is in the game you MUST use it, no DPS is going to drop their spot in queue to join you, and no tank or healer is going to give up their extra rewards for queuing solo.

Go try making a group on wotlk pserver without using RDF. Try it.

Your post is the same thing as saying cars are optional because people can ride a horse to work. Even knowing how terrible cars are for the environment, you can’t tell your boss your commute is going to take half a day because driving a car is optional.

Even knowing how terrible RDF is for the game, once it’s in, all of us HAVE to use it because people will demand convenience be taken advantage of.

Smoothbrain take

as you can see here your post is a blatant lie

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I’m all for RDF, but correlation doesn’t equal causation and all that. It’s entirely possible wotlk was popular in spite of RDF. There is no way to quantify this for either side, though, yet both sides try to claim their opposing belief on this is correct.

No we don’t.

Ill prob be gone before they add it. Game is buggy POS right noww.

Well let me put it this way. If wotlk was the best regarded xpac, are you more likely to be successful by reproducing it as it was, or trying to change the formula?

You could get it right and make it better than before! Or you might screw it up… This is why the anti RDF argument is weaker. The reasoning for removing it is all based on belief and feeling. Without data to say why something should change, it should stay the same.

On the contrary, there is data to support the ilvl changes they are pursuing with ulduar, so there is good rationale for that change. Just one example. Overall, I think they’ve made a lot of changes with sound reasoning. Just not on the RDF front.

When you believe something that already existed was bad, the burden of proof is on you. And I haven’t seen any solid reasons for why RDF shouldn’t be in the game.

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The reasoning for adding it is also based on belief and feeling. Let’s not act like you have some form of objective data that anti-RDF players don’t have.

And if we’re really going to go hardcore on the #nochanges line… RDF was not in at the start of wrath, and only came in with ICC.

Using your own logic, the burden of proof is on you to prove without a shadow of a doubt RDF should be in the game prior to its original introduction with ICC.

Go ahead and use semantics to now defend which patch we’re playing on now.

The long and short of it is… there is no burden of proof to defend. There are no proofs to discuss. You state why you want RDF, and I’ll continue to explain why I don’t want RDF. Bliz will have to make up their minds as to whether it fits in line with their vision for classic. Personally, I agree with them that RDF is very much an anti-old style of WoW quality of life feature. For me it turned my favorite part of WoW into queucraft.

I will also note, that if they actually do classic cata… if RFD does come out, welcome to the remainder of dungeons for classic being obscenely stupidly easy. We tried RFD with difficult (not really that difficult…) dungeons in cata and it failed miserably. Wrath was the starting point of guaranteed success content, with RDF facilitating that mindset. No thanks.

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I didn’t say when it should be added. My main desire is to have it for legacy dungeons. And yes, to NEVER add it is a change. To keep it out after ICC puts the burden of proof on you. Regardless of how you wish logic and arguments work.

That would be a change yes, but as I said before… asking for burdens of proof is meaningless… None of us have any measure of data to argue for or against its addition. All you can do is explain why you want to see it added, and all I can do is say why I’m against its addition. If it’s any consolation, I wouldn’t be entirely against it being added for legacy dungeons.

If you want some level of ‘proof’ regarding how RDF changes the game, then I return to my prior example of what happened in retail. If you want dungeons to NEVER be challenging again… then add RDF. Because ever since it’s addition and the cluster that were Cata heroics… RDF content has been braindead easy ever since. I’m confident I could actually tank a retail RDF dungeon blindfolded (with someone giving me directions) and smacking my keyboard randomly. That’s how easy they are. One only needs to look at poor General Nazgrim in order to see what a queue does to a boss… A boss that arguably had 3 mechanics (kill adds, don’t attack during defensive stance, burn him at the natural enrage). By the end he had… 0 mechanics.

Obviously a challenge argument doesn’t apply to Wrath dungeons, as they’re already easy… but… once RDF comes out, it can’t be taken back.

no it isn’t… I don’t expect players to provide it. Blizzard should. and have for their other changes that actually make sense. For this change, their reasoning is all feelings and rainbows.

you can’t really say this. what happened in retail was SO much more than just RDF. apples and oranges.

you already answered that one.

well that’s what they did. as the one with their finger on the button, Blizzard could choose that. but I understand your meaning of passing the point of no return.

Resort to ad hominem when you get shut down… typical lib.

Toodles baby girl

Again, 10head

You’re spouting off anecdotal nonsense as fact when in hindsight you’ve provided no outliers as to why it’s bad… only “just because”

And then one expansion later, the decline to the game happened due largely in part to this system. It makes the game less social, less competitive, and gives many people the tools to do less work with minimal input.

No the decline of the game happened when they changed Azeroth to its current “Shattered” state. It had nothing to do with rdf. The timing is just convenient enough for the simple folk on the forums to link them.

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Seriously stop. You can’t claim this with a straight face. There were literally hundreds of other changes introduced between RDF implementation and the decline of subs.

Yep. Get a stronger argument