youre arguing from a false foundation with this particular argument though. you argue that people will use rdf because its more efficient for rewards and pugging, yet it cant be allowed to exist if we are going to keep an efficient pug system in place. yet it does NOT remove the ability to manually form groups in any way shape or form. all it does is provide a choice. yet all the anti rdf rhetoric is just that, talking points to preserve the gate keeping system that vanilla classic and tbcc have had that allowed them to feel in control of “their servers” ive seen actual honesty out of a couple of anti rdfers when they flat out said… with rdf we cant control who we let run with us. thats a pretty clear statement that has nothing to do with social interaction.
It would still sort of invalidate open world content. The reward were, imo, way too generous. It completely eclipsed the exploration and questing in the open world.
I would still prefer no extra reward. But that’s me…
how does it invalidate open world content?
The rewards from RDF were so generous, you would out level your current quests/zone in a matter of like 1-2 hours. The speed of leveling was skyrocketed to such a high speed, no need to quest and explore anymore; just queue and complete dungeons.
If your whole subscription hinges on rdf, that also means it’s going to run out either way before ulduar is over, or maybe before it even comes out.
I thought you were talking about extra reward from LFD for heroic content. The max level stuff.
Oh ok, sorry I wasn’t clear. Well both types of rewards tbh. Max level ones, but also the ones from leveling. The extra gold, xp and gear.
Max level one I would simply remove to remove the incentive to use RDF and allow people who don’t want to use it to not miss on anything.
I personally don’t like the concept of removing something to promote another. They should created incentives to be in the world if there isn’t enough incentive. I am not convinced by the hypothesis that if there was no reward from LFD people would be in the world more. So we would probably have to agree to disagree on this specific point.
You bring an interesting perspective. Maybe a good option would be to provide better incentive to be out in the world and exploring and questing. Not sure how exactly, but I like the idea.
It absolutely can and the pug scene was alive and well even though RDF existed because RDF existed in a point where heroics didnt matter outside of gaining emblems and people were pugging raids instead.
RDF kept heroics somewhat relevant and allowed new players to play with better geared people so long as those better geared people decided to use the system.
There are more pros to the RDF system than there are cons. Smart implementation is all that it needs.
There is a reward, an epic.
But here is something about heroic and Naxx 10, they hold the same ilvl. Stats are a little different and blues usually come with 1 secondary stat on it. So a tank could get a relatively good item from King Ymiron with the Red Sword of Courage (essentially naxx 10m gear). Kel’Thuzad has 213 ilvl for being the last boss.
So what is going to happen after heroics have run their course? People will go into Naxx 10 (or even jump right in to 25 to either get another secondary stat, or to increase their ilvl as well as gaining another secondary. Right then heroics become basically useless.
Ulduar comes with its new ilvl stuff, and then they go and put raid gear into heroics from naxx 10. Well the ilvl isnt going to be increasing since naxx 10 gives 100 ilvl. So you are just getting extra stats for probably a very minor difficulty increase and most people wont need to do it because they are in higher content.
Heroics are quite literally a stepping stone into raids.
Beats me. Stock buybacks, Bobby’s yachts, flushed down the drain on Titan? I actually bought the box for Cataclysm so only $20 of that would have gone to Blizzard. Some of that would have had to pay for the Box, the DVD (despite the fact that I had already downloaded the entirety of it by the time I even drove to the store), the manual, etc.
I know some problems simply can’t be fixed by throwing money at them, but thinking about how much money Blizzard has churned through on WoW alone makes me wonder how on earth they still have problems.
This guy is a known troll, yet still gets so many replies on his posts. 
I think that’s how we ended up with world quests. Maybe let’s not travel down that path again.
Ahah maybe. I like relevant open world content tho.
What do raids have to do with LFD? You can’t use LFD for raids.
I was replying to his comment about bonus rewards from using LFD tool. You made me realize something though. With original wrath model you could get the same reward by forming your own group manually and then just queueing with the tool. If you wanted to travel to the dungeon you could do that and queue after you’ve made your way there. But we both know nobody would do that.
Good point. I think there’s no perfect compromise here. I just highly doubt LFD rewards is a significant cause of lower participation in world content.
I mean if the claims are true it wasnt going towards the workers having to sleep in office because they couldnt afford housing.
Rather buy a physical copy than not owning what you buy. I have my boxes as well. But that cost is usually a part of marketing.
Spitting on their customer base maybe? I mean thats a place to look at.
Raids invalidate heroics. RDF (or LFD as you call it) gave a reason to do heroics.
You talking about the extra emblems? Tanks and healers would sometimes get a little goodie bag with some flasks or potions if you joined a random group. But the rewards werent all that great.
I dont like traveling to dungeons to be completely honest. There is no benefit to it. You hop on a flight path to the closest point to the dungeon and then what? Its literally a waste of my time when I could be mining and crafting to make gold and help people out. I can do laps around Basin while waiting on a queue, i could do Ebon Blade dailies though with my proposal RDF wouldnt be in the game that early. I could be doing Championship dailies, I could be doing so much more with my game time than sitting on a flight path.
The reward gives a reason to do it. I agree with the argument that dungeons are a minor part of end game so all this drama around it is a bit ridiculous. The claim that the game will be bad if a system for content that isn’t a big deal is really not convincing at all to me. But I totally disagree if you believe LFD will not kill ability to pug dungeons without the LFD tool. They are 2 separate arguments and should not be confounded.
Yes extra emblem. Regardless my point is if you get extra reward for completing through LFD you should get it without too. Not the extra goody bag part for in demand roles as that could not be implemented. This was in an answer to someone else bringing up a compromise of removing LFD rewards.
So this comes down to which one emblem version? Heroic dailies would give one version and early on there will be no other emblems but from the heroic daily. Well at least there shouldnt be.
After that heroics would give the previous raid tier emblems off of bosses while the heroic daily would update its emblem type.
The extra reward was just a form of catch up. I dont really mind it. Its no skin off my back and I dont care if someone wants to spam heroics in order to catch up. They cant get fully geared that way, but they can at least get a 2pc bonus and some bits and pieces.
But without RDF I as a tank could just say “LFM heals and dps heroic daily first come first serve” and it does exactly the same thing as RDF.
Now there is something that can be done with an earlier issue you brought up. Someone said RDF only pulls from the server and I think you said what about the servers that dont have a high pop. I think they were battlegroups. Link servers together in a way that increases the amount of people that can be on a server and it doesnt punish people for being an a small pop server. And when I say link I mean basically make 1 server made from multiples. That would solve that issue. you can pug from people on the other server, you can invite them to your guild, whatever. No restrictions (if its possible).
You’re still greatly damaging social interactions.