I only operate off the Truth.
Well even the people that try know they can’t, that’s why they drop their arguments and go the route of “You insulted me!” because I’ve offered them advice. They try it with you too. It’s desperate.
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God it’s so awful, this person also edited a quote I never made to make it seem like I insulted them. Actually disgusting behavior, I wish some people could just take a loss instead of getting sore about it.
Was it a debate or a conversation?
My point was people dont go to blizzard asking them to make a game. We pay them to play it, we buy a thing called gametime. Its right in the name of what its called. So no we do not pay for them to make the game, we pay to play the game. Thats the kind of model this game has. Its common understanding at this point and you cant debate the truth.
Yet you’ve been debating anti-RDF the whole thread, seems like you def. do like to debate the Truth.
Because it doesnt solve what you want it to solve. You cant force people to do what you want them to do. You cant force people to have a conversation with you about how their dogs day was while in a dungeon. Its a useless exercise.
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RDF is LITERALLY forcing people to do what they don’t want to do which is automated grouping with randoms and not being able to explore the world, fly around and form groups via LFG.
I think the problem is some people invest so much into these conversations that their pride cannot allow themselves to take the metaphorical loss. Some call it stubbornness, but it actually comes from a place of deep insecurity.
This post was fine leave up I think. From what I saw at least.
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You nailed it on the head there, this def. describes Kelliste.
It actually isnt and its you misunderstanding what the tool is. You can use the system and not be put into a group with random people (which is what you want to do if you want to make friends so your argument doesnt really make any sense) by making your own group.
Flying to the dungeon isnt exploration either, its just travel time spend on flight paths and flying mounts.
I also dont mind grouping up with random people. But lets be honest here, I think you dont want to be grouped up with bad players. If you dont want to group with randoms that means you are grouping with friends, and you can absolutely socialize with your friends using the RDF.
You have no argument against the RDF.
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You’re quick I almost instantly deleted it. I don’t totally agree with the claim I did in that post stating that expansion are proof that you don’t just pay for a subscription to play the game. Because the expansions have a high box price. But I do think it’s partly true box price would probably not cover all of the expansion’s cost, including all patches. I deleted it because I instantly realized I misspoke and didn’t care enough to edit it. Deleting is faster. But I ended up typing much more explaining myself to you so maybe deleting was a mistake.
It’s not zero, that much is certain. Obviously no one at Blizzard has ever broken down their operating budget and how much of an expansion is funded by monthly fees and how much is expected to be recouped by the box sales, but they have said - at least for Cataclysm - that monthly fees help pay for the development of it.
And, honestly, they may not even be able to draw a clear line; because why should they? They have staff year round, they’re working year round - sure they ramp up certain tasks/roles at certain stages of an expansion cycle.
Their argument is most people would use the automated tool therefore the pool of player for creating manual groups would be extremely inefficient. Versus when nobody can use such a tool they have no choice but to participate in the manually formed groups which drastically increase the efficiency of forming groups with pugs in such a way . In my opinion it isn’t far fetched to assume that it becomes a non option for pugging if LFD exists because LFD is then astronomically more efficient at forming groups. Essentially killing ability to pug if LFD exists.
This is a non factor for leveling content because it is already extremely inefficient to form groups for leveling during the hype for wotlk. The experience without LFD isn’t much worse for max lvl content but for leveling it is undeniably worse than it would be with it. Yes it will become impossible to pug without LFD to lvl. But it will make it significantly more accessible. Right now with a high participation the average to get a group going is probably 30min. For me at least and I am being generous.
I agree with this and I would add that people don’t look at scenery while they fly they go afk or alt tab.
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No.
It isn’t.
It’s literally giving people a choice between forming their own groups or letting RNGeesus take the wheel. With instant teleport and bonus rewards it’s a horrible choice, so fine. Remove those rewards. Get it to the point where all you’re doing is making the choice between control and automation. I promise you, even as one of RDF’s biggest and most vocal fans - I have absolutely opted for control when that’s what I wanted.
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How much do you think it costs to create an expansion?
Wrath produced 480m dollars just from box sales alone with using a 40 dollar box price. If that isnt enough to cover the initial investment, the patches and even the development of cata, I dont know where all that money went and I would like to know.
The 15 dollars is at best forcing people to pay to show their interest in it which the amount of time played can do the same exact thing.
Then where did all of that money come go? We are talking about billions at this point. Star citizen development cost is 339m dollars. Cata wouldnt have came anywhere close to that. There should have been enough money to pay investors off from their initial investment plus some and develop wrath patches and cata. They did rebuild the old world, and thats really the only reason that I can think of as to any reason why they should have to dip into that subscription money.
Thats not actually true. People in guilds tend to play with other people in that guild to complete tasks, thats really what guilds are for. So you can still use the system, and not go through the automated function of group building.
So the solution is to not give people a choice in how to use that tool, but to force people into another tool (from retail by the way) to be able to post in a chat channel to find a group? Or you can just run with a guild with that system as well.
The random dungeon finder does a few things, and why I say to implement it later, at least after Naxx. One it gives you a random dungeon, you dont have to travel to that dungeon which just adds onto the wait time from being on flight paths and flying mounts to get to the dungeon, it bypasses the daily lockout which is good for a catch up system when combined with emblems along with getting out of date gear. All that is being removed for the sake of “chatting with others in a dungeon”. Thats not a good reason at all to remove the system.
no, all your compromise would do is put the gatekeeping at the door of the dungeon, so now im travel across the world getting your so called needed immersion and world interaction… which i always got plenty of while farming and questing waiting for my rdf to pop… only to get bounced from the group at the door because they dont want another clothie or dont like my gear.
and how are you cocming up with that i think gatekeeping is “dangerous”? you really need to quit putting made up words into other peoples statements… or is that why you didnt try and quote me?
gatekeeping is elitist and stupid and drives people off servers, some switch servers some just outright unsub. not sure if youre okay with that but i would assume you are as you are here fighting to get that situation in play.
and you anti rdf’ers seem to have some weird delusion that there is such a thing as server communities anymore… all you have now is grouped up sweaty bis server first try hards trying to tell everyone HOW to play the game and if you dont play it their way you dont deserve to be on any server playing the game.
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Well I guess we just aren’t experiencing Classic WoW the same way. You don’t seem to experience what I am, and vice versa. We simply disagree on what would make this game good. It happens.
Also sorry for assuming fear. It really sounded as if you feared gatekeeping from happening.
Yes to be able to preserve an efficient system to PUG. LFD cannot exist. To me that is very likely. And I can’t think of an alternative that would allow people to form PUG groups while LFD is active. I don’t think anyone is talking about forming it with friends or guildies when they bring that argument. To me it seems disingenuous to assume people aren’t specifically talking about PUGS there. Trying to deny the argument that way is not sound in my opinion.
There are definitely pros and cons to LFD and the discussion should be which side has more or less cons and pros. In my opinion LFD is slightly more beneficial for max lvl but it’s really not that big a deal if it isn’t there. For low level the pros for LFD far outweigh the cons.
no sir, i dont fear it happening because it is already happening, it was happening in original wow vanilla, wow tbc, wow wrath until rdf, now its repeated the process again… gatekeeping from vanilla classic through to today and will continue to happen in wrath “classic”.
my point is simply this, anti rdf fear a loss of control over “their servers” while pro rdf simply want choices. but apparently freedom to choose isnt a right we are going to be allowed to have in wrath classic.
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The problem with that is mega srervers don’t need cross-realm. But non mega server do need it. So the compromise there would be no cross-realm for mega-servers only.
Another option is to get reward upon dungeon completion regardless of if it was through LFD or not. Instead of removing it. That’s how it should have always been imo you shouldn’t have such an advantage for using the tool.