Arugal needs to stay PvP!

WoW Classic Mists of Pandaria Classic Discussion
23

To be fair, most people who are happy playing the game don’t come to the forums to post often. Many only come to post issues or problems they have. There may be a few who post suggestions, etc. and there are always the e-peen crowd who come to boast but for many players if the game is going well, they aren’t on the forums. :slight_smile:

Post count means less to me than WHO you are posting with. People who hide behind their Retail characters to post about Classic issues in anonymity definitely have less weight and merit to their posts in my opinion.

As the saying goes, “They don’t have a horse in this race.”

Both factions ALREADY have a choice to play in the Oceanic Realm. They can go to Arugal if they want to play on a PvP server and to Remulos if they want to play on a PvE one. Advocating for the removal of player choice by the developers only demeans the game in my opinion. :slight_smile:

ADDENDUM: Although again, in my opinion, this issue has nothing to do with wanting to create any kind of environment for both factions on the Oceanic Realm as Blizzard has falsely claimed. I believe they are forcing Arugal to go PvE KNOWING that the people who actually chose to play on a PvP server will be forced to move elsewhere to enjoy their game now that there will no longer be a PvP server in the Oceanic Realm. Blizzard can then look at the HUGE drop in population in the Oceanic Realm, (as their post hints at) and decide, “Well, the population of those servers has now all declined. (since the PvP folks have moved on and the PvE folks are now spread across two different servers) Time to move everyone off of the Oceanic Realms so we can now close those servers and save some more money!!”

It’s only a theory, of course. But is in-line with their current philosophy of removing player choice to save on some money and time.

Thanks.

2 Likes
24

yep, dumb idea. leave arugal as pvp

2 Likes
25

100%, leave Arugal as it is or at least poll it.

3 Likes
26

It is really odd they choose to not to the merge here but do the we are about to merge steps.

2 Likes
27

Honestly doesn’t matter, when I was Alliance Horde rarely bothered me and now that I’m Horde the Alliance have only attacked me twice and one of those times was when I was AFK.

1 Like
28

Bump!! #MakeArugalGreatAgain!!

2 Likes
29

Sir, it’s a matter of time before arugal doesn’t exist

30

All this change does is take away the preferred ruleset of the Oceanic region across years and years of World of Warcraft history.

If we wanted to play on a PvE realm, we’d be playing on Remulos, or more likely one of the NA PvE realms (see Classic Anniversary - at the time Maladath (AU) was announced, it was a PvE realm, and Aussies flocked to the US realms instead). New and returning players have always had the option to play on Remulos if they wanted to play on a PvE realm, and the overwhelming majority picked Arugal instead.

Keep Arugal PvP.

Edit:

It’s almost as if Blizzard is making a change that’s unpopular with the people who actually play on the realm. I can’t imagine why those people would suddenly be posting on the forums. Staggering, really.

31

Doesn’t seem super popular with the Alliance.

https://ironforge.pro/population/classic/Arugal/

Super high quality WPvP server, I’m sure.

It was almost as if a bunch of one post alts from the same account were having a conversation with themselves at the start of the thread.

32

This is assuming that whoever is making these decisions is looking at data that a.) is indeed more accurate, and b.) has a relatively unbiased view of such data.

My guess is that whoever the decision makers are in this process have had bad experiences on PVP servers and/or with PVP players and have a negative view of the entire idea that PVP servers should even exist. And as a result is completely disregarding the possibility that people who are on a PVP server that isn’t perfectly 50:50 faction balanced would prefer to be there, and prefer the PVP ruleset.

:woman_shrugging:

33

I think this would be a bad guess given that the classic team tried very hard in Season of Discovery to make PvP servers balanced. The Classic team tried to make old school servers work for years. They continue to try to keep the ruleset alive even in this mega-server system by giving people Grob instead of just doing War Mode on one mega-server.

If you were paying attention at all to what they actually do you’d see they’re catering to you more than they really should bother. It’s not their fault that the reality ends up not being what people wish it was. Most people prefer faction dominance even when they always play on PvP ruleset servers. That’s the reality. Over time the smaller faction continues to get smaller because most people don’t like being outnumbered.

Blizzard has tried to make PvP servers work as a model for 20 years. The vast vast majority of PvP servers in both classic and retail across all regions always end up with a massive faction imbalance.

You have to be ignoring reality to think that a server with 5x+ as many people on one faction is an example of a server where the ruleset is working well and everyone there must just be perfectly happy with the way things are. I’m not saying everyone on the server is unhappy with the way it is, but you don’t have to pretend like it’s a healthy server when one faction has thousands and the other has less than 1k.

If you look at the population history, it started closer to 50/50 and now it’s close to 90% Horde. Obviously the majority of Alliance didn’t enjoy being outnumbered or it wouldn’t have declined to that point. In this area there are also only two entire servers with players remaining and the other server has less than 200 people raiding on it total, so it’s not like all the people who wanted to play Alliance on an OCE server moved to the other server. They either moved to US servers and accepted high latency over being outnumbered, re-rolled Horde to be on the only faction with many people on an OCE server or quit the game.

1 Like
34

I’m not sure why you’re mentioning “War Mode” as separate from the Normal server toggle that exists at the moment. Perhaps you would clarify precisely what you mean.

And it’s possible that they have tried to make it work, but whoever thinks that faction balance is essential (or even important) for PVP servers must not be paying much attention to PVP servers. If anything the larger faction might be a little disappointed that it’s difficult to find WPVP if there is a relatively much smaller opposite faction population, but anybody who actually enjoys being on a PVP server, from, what I’ve seen and experienced at least, absolutely does not have issue with being the lower end of the faction balance.

Issues on smaller servers like lacking AH, or having to reach out to a network of people in guild or discord communities to source materials, consumables, glyphs etc. are some of the harder challenges of being on a smaller server, but PVP sure doesn’t seem like an issue.

So what? Remove PvP from that statement and it’s equally true. This isn’t a PvP issue, and it’s about time we stop making assumptions that PvP is causing faction imbalance (or that that matters), when it’s just that people seem to be flocking towards other people wherever that may be.

People have long used the phrase “<insert-realm-name-here> is an Alliance/Horde>” realm, and that has often been what people have looked for _for finding guilds to raid with.

I have never said that everybody anywhere is perfectly happy with the way things are. There are very noisy, very loud complainers in the WoW community (I doubt WoW is unique in this way), but that doesn’t mean that they are correct or their voice is or should be the one heard, though if they are the only ones complaining…

However, 6 years after the launch of Classic, we’ve had many servers crumble to transfers, player attrition, migrations, etc. etc. and so the communities that we currently have have been forged, quite often through years of bonding/community-building, etc.

To be fair, my stance on the upcoming changes are that I am not against population consolidations. That is not to say that I think it’s OK to switch Arugal to PVE rather than offer character moves to Remulos.

I think that if the devs have reason to believe that consolidating the playerbases onto servers that can support larger populations that those that launched with Classic, then cool. But, let’s not make it out to be something it isn’t. It isn’t “because PVP server faction imbalance is bad.” It’s more likely “because consolidating onto fewer servers is fewer resources and requires less work/effort/time/budget.” And cool. That makes sense, and that’s fine.

This isn’t obvious at all. You can’t use that same argument for all of the other single sided servers and/or dead servers, whether PvP or Normal, because it is just something that happens regardless.

In any case, what exactly is the point being made?

OCE players who currently have both PVP and Normal servers will, after maintenance on the 23rd, no longer have a PVP server. Indeed, between the PVP and Normal server, the decision is “Oh, well the PVP server is far more population and popular, so let’s convert it to be the type the unpopulated server is.” And OCE players are excluded from Free Character Moves to Grobbulus (the last PVP server remaining).

I think OCE players should be given better options. That’s my point. And I don’t think there’s a good argument that PvP servers are to blame for faction balance or population “issues.”

:woman_shrugging:

35

War Mode is a retail feature and isn’t like a PvE server /flag system despite people trying to claim it’s the same thing. You have to go to a major city to switch it on and have to go back to town to turn it off.

When it’s on, you are moved into separate PvP shards and only see other players with it on. It is like being on a PvP server. It is more like a PvE and PvP server co-exist on the same server and you can freely transfer between them whenever you want. /pvp on a PvE server is a temporary flag you can remove in a short amount of time while being in the same zone as other players both with the flag on and off and really isn’t at all like War Mode. Most people there won’t be looking for WPvP where everyone with War Mode on would be expecting it or more likely to participate in it.

The point is that it’s silly to pretend a PvP ruleset server with one faction near death is actually a PvP server in practice anymore anyway.

They could give free transfers to the PvE server with less than 200 players remaining as an option, but it’s not a better scenario than what they’re doing. You’d just be splitting players in a already small region, which is exactly the opposite of what they’re trying to do. Both of those servers combined are already a very small population compared to what the US mega-servers are going to have and they specifically stated the only reason they’re leaving them on their own is because of latency. They would have just merged them with everyone else otherwise.

1 Like
36

That’s like a Normal server. The difference is that PvP servers don’t observe toggles.

I asked about what precisely you meant, because I’m familiar enough with what Warmode is to call it a Normal server, but I was curious what you might be looking at in the context of MoP.

The interesting or compelling things about it is that it adds PvP specific talents while not in PvP and extra loot/experience/quest rewards, for people who might care about those things.

Fwiw, I thought that the Zerith Mortis (I think that’s the spelling) zone in Shadowlands was done well as a quest hub zone with some quests requiring PvP to be toggled on.

I only really point this out because the system (while I contend at its heart is a Normal server toggle) is much more evolved and has come a long way, so people may be looking at other parts, like faction balanced sharding, for example.

And yes, that all makes sense, but that’s more or less a toggle that you can opt into and from my point of view pretty much the same as Normal servers now. We can disagree on this point. That is fine. I appreciate where you are coming from.

This is the type of statement that really bothers me. I can only imagine it comes from people who don’t play on PvP servers and are just regurgitating what others have stated, because it’s just so entirely wrong.

It doesn’t really matter now, as we won’t have any other PvP servers than Grobb from Tuesday’s maintenance onward, but anybody who actually enjoys wpvp who didn’t roll at least a serious alt, if not a main on one of the lesser populated sides of a major faction imbalance server has lost the chance to experience some of the best community and gameplay that WoW has ever had.

Of course that is my opinion, and I’m just sharing it as a champion of my own opinion.

The funny thing is, they won’t (or can’t) consolidate people to PvP servers, and the claim is “they are already PVE servers.”

Yeah, it’s those who chose what they wanted that get it removed and don’t have options that pay the price. But the hardcore fans will either just reroll on Grobb or pay to transfer. Of course they might also move to be closer to the physical servers if latency is an issue :stuck_out_tongue:

:woman_shrugging:

37

I’ve always played on PvP servers in retail when they existed starting in 2004, but my server only really remained a PvP server until maybe Cata. Even in WotLK we started to massively outnumber the Alliance on my server. They always had a huge buff in Wintergrasp since there weren’t many of them left. Tol Barad even fewer. Then they were basically just gone for the most part after that. Maybe you’d see a stray once a month or less.

When Ashran came out they had to connect servers to fill it with both factions and foolishly tried to make it one single instance per server (or combo of servers), which was a nightmare for large servers. We basically begged them in beta not to try to do a single Ashran instance per server. They tried it anyway because Blizzard repeatedly tried to do things for the sake of server identity for years and they usually just made things worse when they did.

A single Ashran per server is what happens when you try to deny reality and do things for the sake of server/community/identity. It never goes the way you hoped it would.

1 Like
38

Well, negative aspects aside, it has been very interesting reliving progressing through expansions. It gives new perspectives into a lot of the design decisions and evolution of WoW.

:woman_shrugging:

39

Game is now officially uninstalled, and a request for refunds on all character boosts has been made.

40

The server should be given a proper explaination.

1 Like