I think it’s very likely at some point (probably far future) we are all going to be reintroduced to Arthas as the Lich King in WoWF.
Whether we want it or not I think it’s too good an opportunity to pass up.
My question is, how do people want this to play out?
Have it end mostly the way it did in Wraith? Or have a redemption arc where he sacrifices himself or returns to the Light and becomes an ongoing figure moving onwards?
Keen to hear people’s thoughts, I personally wasn’t too impressed with how they handled it in SL.
I wonder how far from WoW’s lore Blizzard might go.
They pulled Sky Elves out of no where. They made Dalaran more interactive. But how impactful will these changes even be in the grand scheme of things? It’s very early for me to guess.
Even Arthas fans seemed to like how he ended in WotLK - they seem to object to his fate in Shadowlands.
I don’t like him much anyway. He isn’t even a good villain. He’s like the Nepobaby brat who fell for every trick and made every one else suffer for it.
The best use of Arthas would be as a preview of a bigger threat. Maybe we see him march out of Icecrown, like before, but instead of the Wrathgate… Deathwing flies out of the ground and swallows Arthas whole.
That would be a cool cinematic.
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It was very clear within Arthas’ story that, along the line, it was HIM making the choices. Not Ner’zhul, not the Jailer, not anyone that would be considered a manipulator to him. To that, Arthas doesn’t deserve or need redemption imo. His story is better as a man suffering under the weight of his own decisions.
The SLs fluff of Uther wanting to have presented him to the Arbiter at the appropriate time and the Jailer having been the puppet master pulling the strings can all largely be discarded since Arthas himself is not an active participant as a character in these moments. He’s just a flashback device/glob of art/pixels that other characters reflect on.
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I feel like people have very different expectations of Forever than I do.
If Northrend and Arthas were introduced to Forever, the content would not be about redeeming or defeating him. It would be about establishing a stable status quo for the setting to be locked in. He would remain the Lich King. The Scourge would remain the Scourge. Players would be given things to accomplish, sure, but at a lower level that doesn’t threaten to undo everything.
The point of Northrend in Forever would be for pre-alt-whatever-WotLK to exist as a place locked in time, not for it to be wrapped up and finished.
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They also kept it grounded as in the literal sense. And since the question has come up, I think we will see more expansion of the Earthen Ring as Dalaran’s opposite number.
How is it more interactive when it’s now Alliance-only?
How much of those decisions are his when everything that made him human had been stripped away by Frostmourn?
It is clear in the first mission of the Path of the Damned campaign.
“I have betrayed everything and everyone I ever cared about. And yet I feel no remorse, no shame, no pity.”
To which Tichondrius explained that to be a side effect of his soul being claimed by Frostmourn. It is made abundantly clear to us that the decisions Arthas makes in that campaign would not be possible for the Arthas of the previous campaign.
Arthas is not a man suffering under the weight of his own decisions. He is a man suffering under the weight of a singular decision, one he made under extreme duress and out of a sense of duty to everything he cares about. Picking up Frostmourn. That decision BETRAYED Arthas’ intention of self-sacrifice, not some forseeable consequence that Arthas could weigh, measure and accept. Because he wouldn’t have.
No dual-soul/mind shenanigans. That was always super silly and too cartoony in my eyes. Ultimately, the end of Wrath Whitewashed Arthas’s evil actions and I’d prefer it if they doubled down on his bastardly evilness in Forever or any future media that involves him.
At the end of TFT Ne’zhul and Arthas became “one” and a new entity was created as was blatantly called out in the narration. Let the Arthas-Ner’zhul LK be a new character that’s just as bastardly as the RTS made Arthas out to be while having Ner’zhul’s cunningness as well
HELL NO
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arthas redemption no
nerzhul redemption yes
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I meant in comparison to vanilla, the time frame Forever is taking place, where Dalaran was not as interactive for anyone.
It became a full blown playable city much later.
You know… If Arthas’ soul is gone, trapped within Frostmourn, how could he ever be “one” with Ner’zhul?
He was an empty vessel. He was essentially mindless. Not to the point of being an animal, but mindless enough where he couldn’t disobey an order from his master.
Ner’zhul saying “Now we are one” could be kind of tongue-in-cheek, because he is essentially taken taken Arthas’ body… But Arthas isn’t there. It is a soulless meatbag that is wholly devoted to him. Ner’zhul basically just picked Arthas to be his body like a Generation 1 Death Knight.
Unless Arthas’ soul trapped in Frostmourn was able to return… But why wouldn’t that happen with any other soul?
The only way this makes sense is to assume that Arthas was never the Lich King. He was merely the puppet for him.
I’m gonna take a wild guess and say they will replicate the Halls of Reflection gimmick fight somewhere. I could see them really revamping the story surrounding Naxx to include a Scourged Quel’Thalas. They will probably keep the Lich King around Forever.
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Neither. ESPECIALLY not the latter though.
I don’t understand why people think so inside the box on this. Arthas doesn’t have be redeemed or die. In fact if they really want to keep Forever “Forever” they can’t kill any load bearing big bads. Arthas should remain a constant threat indefinitely. Same with the Legion, Old Gods and anything else that can’t be replaced once broken.
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Yes this is true, good point.
As much as it pains me to admit this. The whole deal of Mourneblades “splitting” the soul of one that is a victim to it does work in this scenario. And Arthas is presented as Frostmournes first victim.
But that feels like a bandaid to a problem that existed purely because of Wrath of the Lich King and its tie in novel, Arthas: Rise of the Lich King. Where they have “DK Arthas” usurp Ner’zhul instead of Ner’zhul achieving total victory over the one person he really wanted to give the middle finger too. That being Kil’jaeden.
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Just think, we’d see the Drakkari Empire before they decided to kill all their Loa and take their power in a desperate bid for survival. Might even be that the Horde could save them from that fate.
In my mind-palace version of Forever, we get Arthas sending the Scourge out on recon missions as like big events. “Oh no, Arthas is making moves!! Meet with (Cult of the Damned person), beat him up until he spills, then track down the Scourge assault moving through (Zone)!!” Do the same with the Burning Legion and the Old Gods. They’re the powers behind the threat we face, but not the people we actually fight. Their baddies pop up, do some things, we kick them out, and done. Until next time.
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I’d put Azshara in this category as well.
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Yeah anyone that could be an expansion level antagonist should remain in the shadows in WoW: Forever.
I do hope WoW: Forever does show some love towards C’thun. Poor guy doesn’t really have anything notable to his name because of the fact he was killed during Vanilla.
Yogg-saron has the Curse of Flesh. Resulting in several playable races existing.
N’zoth has the Emerald Nightmare (even if Yogg was the one who made it), corruption of the Black Dragonflight and the creation of the Naga. While also being the hidden main antagonist of Cataclysm.
Y’shaarj haunted Mists of Pandaria’s narrative through things like the Sha and the Mantid. Even secondary plots like the Divine Bell can be linked back to him via the Sha. As the Divine Bell was an attempt by Lei Shen to control the Sha.
Hell even G’huun, the ‘Old God in name only’ hijacked an entire tribe from their original God, was the main reason why Dazar led his people out of Nazmir into Zuldazar and was the main antagonist of the Hordes launch experience of BFA.
All C’thun has in retail was the War of the Shifting Sands and the two AQ raids. Oh no, the worst thing he did via one of his minions was make Fandral go down a negative character arc.
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And one that only reached its culmination after his death at that. Even with Fandral, he has to share credit with N’zoth/Deathwing.
Cthun is really just got the least impressive in-game resume of all the Oldies.
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