There’s already been times where classes have had all 3 specs perform well in PvE and PvP. In druids case, all 4 specs.
And that should be the goal, every spec from every class should be powerful in their own regard.
2 Likes
Defense Stance shouldn’t even be a PVP talent, just baseline ability… same with stormbolt.
Other classes have tons of cc and defensive abilities. Lock ,mage and priest maybe even rogue has more survivability than Arms and we don’t even get Defense Stance as baseline talent.
3 Likes
Thanks for the post!! I just have a quick question about arms warrior covenant’s, strictly between Kyrian and Venthyr. Initially when phial’s weren’t usable in arena and the nerf to kyrian’s ability I thought Venthyr 100% (also before knowing the door of shadows cc is reduced in pvp). I still think it’s a close toss up but haven’t played on beta at all. The two to compare would be the 1st guy and 1st girl for each covenant. The first guy gives passive 5% vers and on use 5% mastery for 20+ seconds + phial healing and spear ability. The Venthyr girl gives CC on door of shadows, 4% damage 2% damage reduction to the 1st target you hit, 80 second cooldown on bloodlust (20% haste for 10 seconds), condemn, and door of shadows. As of now one of these two are definitely the choice I’d say. What makes condemn even more appealing in pvp is the damage reduction component on top of being shadow damage (ignoring armor). As you said war is a little raged starved, especially being the start of a new expansion, I imagine most of the condemns will come from the proc talent. Thanks!
Edit: I didn’t also realize they buffed arms execute HEAVILY. On beta a new character execute says 2949 while condemn 2023. That’s a massive passive difference alone. Kyrian is probably the go too all things considering now
Played around on live last night. Haven’t done arenas semi-seriously since early WoD.
Hamstring being on GCD is absolutely miserable. We have one of the worst slows in the game and it’s also clunky to use.
This one change would make the spec a lot funner and a lot less frustrating to play.
2 Likes
Considering how many other classes barely have 1 feasible for PVP I would disagree. Also in order for fury to have its utility or offensive pressure increased it would have to be nerfed in other areas such as its sustainabilities which is what arms spec seems to do well. Does fury need mortal strikes? No, it does not. I love the current iteration of fury and its powerful in pve. Try to balance for pvp and you screw it up for pve. It has been that way since day one of the game. Maybe spruce up the pvp talents but not the core. It should not be given anything or taken away. It is what fury should be.
You what?
It’s amazing, some would think they can balance the two, separately.
Well, you know, until they specifically started making balance changes that only affect pvp, honour talents, etc.
1 Like
Fury needs a simple small baseline increase in damage and a 15% chance for rampage to root the target for it’s duration. Storm Bolt baseline, talent replaced with a new talent “Beserker Charge.” Charge interrupts your target and roots them in place for 1 second.
All IMO.
Rampage is instant what?
1 Like
Smexxin you’re the boi; great writeup, muchos agreement.
Hope Blizz takes some into consideration (HS/RC GCDs would be my numero uno)
I do not understand what you mean?
Understand Marksman, beastmaster, and survival are all three specs? Most likely the only goto spec for a pure dps class is beastmaster. Marksman was notorious for breaking CC chains and survival has had its pvp spec downgraded with losing the burst from firebomb and other azerite traits and essences.
Rogue has sub which is disgustingly fantastic with premonition and the 30% to shadow damage after leaving stealth combined with the legendary giving free shadow strikes. But Assassination and combat. I mean well outlaw is to range dependent to make it in anything meaningful in pvp. Assassination does alright but lacks the synergy and power of the healing that Sub has. Rogue has one very strong pvp spec out of 3.
Monk has Windwalker which will do well in Shadowlands. Mistweaver and Brew are seeing weak signs of success in pvp. Why bring a Mistweaver when a top tier healing spec such as restore druid and disc priest cannot do better. So that is a third class with 1 strong pvp spec. And no. Blizzard has yet to prove to anyone that they can really make a spec strong for both pve and pvp. Etc. Etc. I do not believe a warrior should have 2 strong pvp dps specs and a tank build that has made great success in certain comps as a strong CC shutdown build with its utility of peeling off team mates and locking opponents down.
You posted a lot of arguments that could debatably make a case for why Fury should be a lower priority than other specs in pvp balancing. You have not however posted a single thing to support this:
It’s one thing to say “I think other specs need to come before Fury in being made strong in pvp” and it’s quite another to say, “I don’t think every spec should be strong in pvp”. Again, also very different to say, “I’m not particularly concerned if every spec isn’t strong in pvp” versus “I don’t think every spec should be strong in pvp”
You keep making statements and arguments that are either…bizarre, or argue for a different conclusion than the one you keep giving.
What about my posts do you disagree with? If you wish to respond it is hard to discuss it when I do not see what specifically you are speaking about. How is saying I do not want to see fury being buffed in pvp somehow contradicting that other classes need the buffs before they buff one of the strongest classes in the game?
Fury gets another utility ability and self healing will suffer. Fury gets another stun or Mortal strike and bloodthirst will be nerfed to maybe 2% this time along with an enraged regeneration nerf. That is how balancing works. You cannot have it all and in especially one spec. Fury is not weak in pvp right now.
I told you, quite specifically. You specifically argue that
You state that you outright disagree with the goal of
You have said nothing to support your arguments on this.
This is irrelevant to whether all the specs should be strong in pvp. These are arguments against specific adjustments to Fury’s current state. They are not arguments that Fury shouldn’t be strong in pvp, and you haven’t made any. You just keep saying that they shouldn’t be and everyone head tilts because…ya know, actually what? Then you go and repeat arguments against specific theoretical balance adjustments and ask how you’ve been unclear. In a word -
bizarre.
1 Like
Well, I am satisfied I have made my point. I am seeing requests asking for fury to have all abilities in PVP without any drawbacks. A utility that diminishes healers. Others have asked for a baseline storm bolt, more mobility, and retaining its current sustain and superb self-healing. You cannot be given those and expect the spec to survive as is. If enjoying my main spec in Shadowlands and not wanting to see any changes is bizarre then yes I am bizarre.
No, your method of argument and communication is bizarre. This idea that not every spec should be strong in pvp is bizarre. You constantly stating something different than what someone is expressing an issue with is bizarre, like you just did again.
2 Likes
“Fury is not weak in pvp right now.”
Fury sees almost 0 play in high level arena, and even on beta right now is in a worse state than Arms in every way.
Not to mention that Bloodthirst healing already got nerfed from BFA to Shadowlands, ignore pain costs 80 rage opposed to the 40 it does for Arms, and the pacing of the game is much faster so self healing matters less. ALSO thirst for battle honor talent was removed, so both of Fury’s best tools in arena match were toned down a ton. What exactly does fury have now that makes them good in PvP again?
7 Likes
Boodthirst was nerfed to 3% and ip has a larger rage cost because of how much easier rage generation is. Fury is in a strange place in pvp. It is quite powerful in arena right now from using tank stats and trinkets with corruption. Last thing fury needs is mortal strike. We have arms which is a meta for high end pvp and fury is looking to be a nice spec for pve in shadowlands.
A lot of the arms PvP talents would be great for Fury to have. Mainly, Warbanner. Also, D stance would be nice.
2 Likes
If you want to be a god in PVP as fury right now get the tank trinket from Nzoth and go ham. You are basically the tankiest melee in the game. DPS version of a blood death knight. Watching a 470 fury warrior as a mist weaver is amusing. I am not sure why people think Blizzard does not want balance in pvp. Give fury utility and they suffer in sustain and healing nerfs. D stance is not required with well timed shield blocks and use of IP if being focused.[quote=“Aédan-malganis, post:34, topic:647427”]
This is irrelevant to whether all the specs should be strong in pvp. These are arguments against specific adjustments to Fury’s current state. They are not arguments that Fury shouldn’t be strong in pvp, and you haven’t made any. You just keep saying that they shouldn’t be and everyone head tilts because…ya know, actually what? Then you go and repeat arguments against specific theoretical balance adjustments and ask how you’ve been unclear. In a word -
bizarre.
[/quote]
You have specs for a reason to swap out for what is meta in the actual game centered around the given circumstances. Both have their strengths and weaknesses. Fury is definitely built around being in battle to fuel the berserker aspect of the spec thematically which is prolonging the rampage as much as possible from self healing. It is a utterly selfish spec that does not need utility in pvp. If you want to work around fury in pvp then you might have to opt for builds that cater to its strengths and sustainability. It is alright that warriors does not have two meta worthy specs for pvp. One is meta for pve and one is meta for pvp. It seems to be how Blizzard is wanting to balance the class and it has worked well for the last few iterations. I do not want to see fury changed. I hope blizzard does give or take away from fury minus the number tweaking. If they want to change around the pvp talents to help improve the ability to be a threat then that seems like a better approach to me as long as it doesnt provide the utility arms does.
You literally just tried to validate your argument about SL viability using a pve trinket from BFA.
You big dumb.
1 Like