Anyone find colossus hero talent hot garbage compared to its counterpart? Demolish build up just to do as much dmg as 2 mortal strikes is definitely lack luster even after buff. Demolish stacks should be buffed by double giving it 100% more dmg. Demolish just doesn’t feel like I demolish anything. It should just be one awesome attack with 1 huge number instead of 2 weak slices and 1 smash. Even after that it’ll probably only perform as good as slayer. Also the fact that you HAVE to spec into shockwave or else one of the passive is completely useless? Blizzard didn’t think it through when they made some of these hero talent passives for classes. Forcing players to run a skill. Same with slayer forcing players to run blade storm in their rotation. Im not saying slayer has bad talents, it’s just not very customizable and I never liked running blade storm in a single target fight. Now you kind of have to making fatal mark completely useless.
In PvP? Sure it’s pretty rough to get off without set-up or having some foresight.
In PvE? I’ve been exclusively using it in M+ and it slaps hard and I mean this is an overall damage beast and also takes advantage of vuln phases on bosses (which happen to be the pug killers in Necro Wake / Mists / Siege).
It’s got very good sustained AoE with a really solid burst too. Stacking Ravagers into a pre prepped Collateral Damage leads to some nasty cleave casts when set-up appropriately.
I wouldn’t exactly say forced talents are that bad of an issue, you’re generally always going to path through them anyway. Plus you’ve never really had any choice outside of a couple of points in our talent trees pending what you’re trying to optimise.
There is a slight stat discrepancy though between Colossus and Slayer though where Colossus does want more Crit while still liking haste, which is the reverse of what you’d focus for on Slayer which wants more haste while still liking crit, even though most of your pieces would be the same. This does put in a slight wrench in the works if you’re optimising for keys in trying to pickup multiple necks/rings.
Idk, im running a full bleed build and i find Arms Collosus really fun to play. Shock Wave, Thunderous Roar, Thunder Clap Rend, and Cleave clocks damage really fast. The enemies just seem to literally melt into death. Demolish is a great hitter and i have no problems with it. Haste is needed though, but not as high as you think. I favor Mastery over everything and its worked out so far. I dont think alot of people really understand the Mastery stat for Arms and dont really know how it works. Once you understand it and play around it, the spec claps some serious cheeks.
They need to allow you to move while it’s channelling. Not this sort of root in place. Make it like Cataclysm Slam. Had a cast bar, but you could freely move while it was going.
tbh I think the fantasy is a little weak compared to thane and slayer.
thane makes you feel like a stormlord. slayer makes you feel like a blademaster/beyblade.
colossus makes me feel 5% bigger and the rest is fairly forgettable. IMO they should lean into the “colossal” fantasy and amp up that 5% size to something like 15%. Really make anyone who’s picked that hero talent tree stand out as being notably large.
For the talents, if we must stick with Demolish as it is, I’d really prefer there be less actives. Arms has always been the lowest button count of the 3 warrior specs, and this time around it feels strangely cluttered, which is a little disappointing. Mountain Thane makes Cleave/Whirlwind obsolete by Thunderclap/blast which I really dig.
Similarly, it would be nice if slam or rend were baked into other attacks somewhere just so demolish doesn’t add too much extra clutter. Also make Demolish a leaping attack like the fyralath active OR have it unlock movement, OR make it cast warbreaker for its final impacting strike so anyone within a large vicinity feels the tremor.
For additional flavour, much like how mountain thane turns your avatar from brown into silver and lightning-y, it’d be really cool if colossus made our avatar form even bigger, and reset the cooldown on colossus smash/warbreaker. Or made heroic leap deal warbreaker upon impact.
I just feel like for a hero tree named “colossus”, it strangely focuses less on the literal meaning of the word, and more on demolish-interactions.
expanded on this idea a little more with a thread of my own if anyone cares to read it:
Something not many people are aware of, you can min range leap to reposition yourself out of danger while still hitting all your targets as if you stayed still, since you’re still in range it works perfectly.
But this does require some on the fly forethought.
It is pretty amusing that Blizzard explicitly laid out the design intent for Demolish to be “two wind up hits to throw the target off balance before the big attack” when they described the ability and then didn’t represent this at all in the actual mechanics.
Actually having the first two hits apply a CC debuff of some kind could actually fix some of the issues with demolish. Heck, giving it a short knockdown would also go a long way towards boosting the PVE utility of colossus for both Arms and Prot by giving them another interrupt.
What you are describing is not a very intuitive thing, a work around if you will because it’s a poorly designed mechanic.
Warriors NEVER asked for casting or channeling skills. It totally kills the class fantasy regarding fluidity in combat.
Exactly, it’s a way to game the mechanics to work in your favour outside the box thinking if you will. Having actual moments where there is a higher skill ceiling is good since it separates the mindless button pressing zombie to someone who’d thoughtful about the buttons they’re pressing.
We’ve had a channelled skill the whole time in Bladestorm which is widely regarded as a fun ability, albeit with some haters but there’s always someone who’ll find a reason to hate on something.
Having played FF14’s Melee class Samurai and seeing what Demolish would bring to Arms I was honestly quite excited at the gameplay elements that would come into play.
Sure it’s going to put you in awkward spots if you mistime it’s use (Been there), but also pulling it off during hectic moments in PvE is very enjoyable (for me).
From a PvP pov given that it’s so easily beaten via counterplay (walking away when an addon screams at you) if you don’t lock down your opponent. I can see them adding an additional effect of Demolish casts also holding your target into place during the channel so the ‘walk out’ method isn’t entirely infallible and would cause people to have to trade off a cooldown of some sort to avoid it through a rootbreak.
The difference is blade storm you are moving while you are doing it so there is a sense of momentum. I don’t feel the cast so to speak. I feel I am actively going somewhere unless I want to cancel macro it abruptly.
A channeling skill where you have to stand still even for a second is annoying AF for warrior. I detest certain things like champion’s spear for this reason. I have to stop and aim something on the floor. It just takes me out of the class for a second. I enjoyed some chunky demolisher hits on beta. But it resulted in some awkward timing of cooldown and in mythic plus its annoying having to think of workarounds to not die using a skill like this or if the tank moves the mobs out of the way.
Reminds me of whirling dragon punch on monk where I momentarily lose access to my character, and I can get one shot as a result. If you like the mini game of planning to incorporate that risk, then fine but I just don’t enjoy it for warrior.
Don’t forget mobs can literally move away from you and demolish does nothing. I’ve had that happen countless times and it’s terrible. Or you use it right when a dodge mechanic kicks in then you’re forced to cancel. The problem for me is slayer is just so much more viable with overwhelm and the single target output being way better. I run mythic plus and raids as slayer over demolish even though demolish can destroy packs it just doesn’t outweigh slayer doing decent aoe and way better single. Maybe I just need more testing but from what I’ve experienced demolish is just lack luster especially when it doesn’t crit and my stats are almost perfect crit/hast.
Like Greìl, I’ve actually found Colossus to be a lot of fun and decently competitive in Mythic +. The tree has a lot of synergies with our AoE profile, and its quite easy to roll from pack to pack stacking up Collateral Damage and Colossal Might to unleash on the next set of adds. It does require a lot more effort than Fury Slayer’s Press my CDs and watch me top the meters for that pull, but I’m largely enjoying it.
There are a few things that could be tweaked (Demolish Range increase, Castable without a target, etc.) but they’re mostly Quality of Life things more than anything.
I’m not really against Slayer or Colossus for pushing these talents (They’re often seen in other hero trees as well). Shockwave in general being an easy access is a huge win for our utility overall, considering in Dragonflight specing Shockwave was a Capstone talent that felt really bad to pick up. But I can see why not having the freedom to select something else can sting a bit.
Oh heck yeah, bring back “Throw down.” lol
I think Shockwave on the pack just before you hit demolish might be a good macro.
I wouldn’t mind if it was channeled while moving. The fact that any melee talent needs to be used standing in place is terrible design.
It’s decent if you go for Boneshaker (Shockwave’s Stun is extended by 1 Second, and enemies are slowed after), but I’ve personally found Earthquaker (Shockwave Knocks Targets up in the air) paired with Rumbling Earth gives you so many frequent AoE stops, that its hard to ignore. Especially since other classes outside of Evoker don’t have a lot of knock ups.
Hunter and Shaman, but yeah. Give us Ancient aftershock back!
Hey man, I literally copy pasted your build a few days ago when you and Curoar were having a chat in a discussion. I gave it a go because I adore Colossus, it’s everything I’ve ever wanted in a warrior.
Problem is though that when I Sim Col-Arms against Slay-Fury the difference is almost 140k dps 
.
Is this normal?
Because if I Sim myself as Fury against you, your somewhere like just on 910k and I’m just over 1mil dps. Yet you out gear me by a lot.
Have you found that there is a big difference between your sim and actually playing through a key?
I’d really like your response because your experimentation is fascinating.
Honestly? Sims for M+ aren’t just there in all honesty.
I’ve always taken them with a grain of salt and never put stock in them because the APL at a baseline isn’t exactly optimised for what you would do to maximise a pull and doesn’t count what you can do with certain talents to game additional damage at the start of a pull, especially relevant with stacking up Collateral Damage from the pull prior and empowering it with Ravager’s buff to cleave with some OP stacks.
So yes it’s normal for your sims to put the output as lower than what you’re going to expect in a key.
Quite regularly my overall for keys is in the 1.3M-1.6M+ range, pending pull aggression from tanks (ranging from 7s-10s key wise).
I’ve also gapped people quite heavily on boss fights with vuln phases with proper set-up of cooldowns. I’ve had solid openers on boss fights with a built up Collateral Damage Cleave which has lead to being equal to the more meta ST builds some classes run.
There is definitely some thought involved in playing Colossus in keys as opposed to the straight forward nature of Slayer for Arms and Fury both, but overall I think the positive benefits both in your utility (longer shockwave or knock up) while also having potent burst on demand damage quite regularly makes it a sleeper pick M+ wise.
Sim wise there are some good things to pickup regarding Colossus and stat interaction where going heavier on crit is better for the spec than going heavier on haste (EG, Sikran neck does better for Slayer, Rashanan for Colossus).
Most of my experimentation however has been through my own runs and seeing what works best for each dungeon.
One funny thing though from this all, one group last week I ran some keys with 3 dungeons in a row and they were none the wiser I was even playing Arms, they thought I was fury the whole time 
until I told them after those 3 keys.
Colossus needs only a small handful of love shown to it:
Rage generation. Being reliant on a Shaman being in the group to generate a good amount of rage feels bad. You cant always have a shaman with you so something should be looked at.
Allow demolish to be used on the move. Nothing feels worse than when you set up to unload cooldowns on a ripe pack of mobs only to have the tank suddenly move 5 feet and you just watch the final hit miss and the ability hit cooldown.
Make Mountain of Muscle and Scars between 20% - 30% (As big as a giant growth pot or winterfall firewater) and give it a passive reach to represent that larger size. You don’t even know a warrior is a Colossus currently till you look at the dmg done. Even when standing next to the same race the 5% size isn’t even noticeable.
I’ve been using Colossus for both my arms and prot specs and enjoy the heck out of it but really it could be shown just a little love. The size thing is what bothers me most let the fantasy of a Mountain be the thing Blizzard not the Molehill it currently is.