It’s pretty obvious that the GD forums really hate borrowed power. But if you consider the alternative of a new talent row each expansion the reasoning behind it makes sense.
Currently, every Class/Spec combo has 21 talents. Hypothetically, if they added additional talents for Legion, BFA, and now Shadow Lands that would raise the total number of talent to 30 choices.
There are currently 36 specs in the game meaning there are 756 current talents to balance. In our hypothetical scenario there are 1080. And that’s not even counting PVP talents.
And let’s be honest, they are nowhere close to being able to balance the 756 we have, let alone 300 more. The system is already unmanageable, and adding a tier every x-pack will make the problem even worse.
By using the borrowed power systems they only have to worry about trying to balance 1 x-pack worth of talents that have no lasting impact on the game. This extends the life cycle of the current talent system where they would otherwise reach a point where they would have to completely start over.
I know this method doesn’t feel the best, but it’s the best solution for the longevity of the game without completely redesigning the talent system.
borrowed power is fine but they could tone back on how much they introduce.
Like did we really need 1 class ability, 1covenant ability, 3 soulbinds, each with slots of multiple different conduites, and legendary items to equip as well?
Legion had artefact weapons which kept it simple and legendaries which although RNG were also pretty simple
Except the Covenants are giving us more things that need to be balanced than 3 additional rows of talents would.
Though my biggest gripe with them is that, outside of Legion, they’re not thematically built for our class but they’re still filling out our kits so our classes don’t really feel complete without it.
and I rolled a Paladin to be a Paladin, not a vampire or a night fae or whatever.
That and in BfA they just kept stacking more and more systems on top of each other.
K but instead of just giving us 1 new talent row and tier sets which was the usual, we got 9 azerite traits, and 4 essences, along with the broken corruption system.
Seems to me like thats WAAAAAY more to balance dood.
Then in SL we have the covenants and 3 different soulbinds for each covenant along with all the conduits. And this is only the start im sure theyll add in more player power systems every patch just like Legion and BFA.
So you really gonna argue borrowed power systems they did in legion, bfa and now SL has been a much better alternative to the original 1 new set of talents and tier sets?
A new talent row isn’t needed. Expand horizontally, not vertically. Give more choices but not necessarily more capacity if that makes any sense.
It has a lasting impact during the term of each expansion and given the inability to properly balance it has a greater impact than a smaller imbalance over the same period.
The game was so much better before it was a slot machine bling bling nonsense machine that has 47 interfaces for shiny gems to socket and time gated enhancements to buy with currency you can only get by doing content that no one likes.
This version of WoW is bordering on laughable at this point. And they never listen. Why does my Mage need to pick a covenant? Like why? I don’t give a crap about any of them, my identity is just fine as a “Mage”, thanks.
How about make a game and let us play it the way we want again.
But here is where the problem lies, with no actual lasting impact it feels like a waste, maybe if the borrow power lasted for 2 expansions instead of the majority of just 1.
Yeah but if you feel stronger in base form in previous expansion but weaker in the rest , might as well throw this power progression out the window and do what GW2 does never increase or decrease in power, just learn new skills useful only in that expansion
I know Blizzard likes their number increases and grind systems, but I wouldn’t be against some horizontal progression either.
Somebody mentioned giving us 4 talents per row which wouldn’t be bad. I’d also not be against an expansion giving us all an additional spec to play around with.
In EQ there are “Alternate Advancement” (or AA) points/skills. Sort of like WoW old-school talent points. You get to max level and from then on all exp you collect goes into obtaining AA points. They just keep adding new AA abilities every expansion. So you get to keep power you’ve already earned, and it gives max-level players a reason to group up and do content to get XP.
My main problem is that they regressed class design a lot when they transitioned to borrowed power. They should have stopped at MoP classes and just started borrowed power on top of that.
Granted, it would be difficult to add anything on top of MoP classes, but I’d rather have smaller additions to good classes than big additions to half baked classes. I’d be fine with borrowed power systems being concentrated in one extra button, or one item slot that keep changing with expansions without too much effect on overall class design. Simplified borrowed power systems basically.
Like, instead of azerite gear, the neck essences and corruptions in BFA, just have the neck with a bunch of essences, and that’s it. And you just work through the expansion on improving or acquiring more essenses. Just one extra button, some passives to choose.
Don’t let class design be dictated by it. For example, if essence adds an execute, don’t suddenly remove executes from classes. Just let it be two executes for this expansion.