Are they hard or are people trying to do them while really under geared?
The ilvl you can get from heroics, world quests and world events is much higher now. And you can get really good gear from the vault from doing heroics.
Are the players failing out of m0s not geared with these items?
Or is it because of a lack of experience? The mechanics are actually dangerous now so now they have to learn them.
Is it growing pains because of change or are m0s just too hard for the players looking to do them?
I’ll be curious how public perception changes over this season on m0s.
2 Likes
They are rather easy. No affix so basically a quick run for gear.
3 Likes
“hard” insofar as people just have to do the basic mechanics
13 Likes
A lot of people are seriously overestimating M0s. Did a bunch last night. Granted I over geared them (at 502 ilvl, I just wanted my bullion from the weekly) but the other people in the pugs I was in did not and they usually did fine (the RLP group I had was miserable)
I think people are going in with 450 ilvl from S3 and getting confused as to why they’re getting 1 shot.
Had one group last night with an Augvoker who had 500k hit points. He died a lot.
You should be 470-480 when doing M0.
8 Likes
I think most folks go into them undergeared. Boost a character to 424 and think you can go right into a mythic. In the olden days sure. But not tpdays mythics.
3 Likes
M0s are near impossible now and totally overtuned garbage. Blizzard made a massive mistake. Its literally impossible to even get into a group for M0 now. Ridiculous catering to the toxic 1%
8 Likes
Unless you have friends or a guild to carry you there is no chance you would ever get invited from the finder at this level.
5 Likes
I mean that’s a community issue, but that’s the ilvl they’re designed for.
2 Likes
theyre not difficult if youre familiar with the dungeons as keys
3 Likes
TL;DR: Yes, some players are going in with too low of an ilvl. M0 PUGS should be done at ilvl 480+
I think people really did expect to go straight into S4 M0 wearing their S3 M0/LFR equivalent mix of veteran/champion ilvl 463/476 gear. I know I did. That kinda worked in previous seasons!
But the truth is, in S4 if you go to M0 with sub ~700k HP, some mechanics can and will one-shot or two-shot you. Or put too much strain on a tank. Or put too much strain on a healer trying to keep you up through sustained AoE damage or clutch heal you from sudden damage that frags 80% of your health bar out of nowhere. Plus, your lower DPS will make everything be a threat longer, compounding the problem. Algeth’ar is a good dungeon to exemplify all of these. Can be done in low gear conditions with a dedicated group that communicates in voice, but a straight up pug will struggle and probably disband.
This was a wake-up call. That being said, overworld events (Dream stuff, Siege on Dragonbane, Time Rifts, etc.) and heroic dungeons drop 480+ gear that’ll get players at 800k+ HP, and then suddenly everything M0 and +2 becomes super manageable.
Conclusion: Yes, some players are going in with too low of an ilvl. M0 PUGS should be done at ilvl 480+
2 Likes
Imma try some later today.
Heroics are still a joke, things felt slightly spongier but still easy.
Third week in a row with someone asking if M0s are difficult.
And yet, they haven’t been all this time. Just play your class well, there’s no timer, there’s no rush.
7 Likes
Spoken like a true elitist. Maybe for you they arent difficult but for the us normal players ie the 99% M0 is so overtuned its comical how out of touch blizzard is
I remember getting into m0 at the beginning of DF and recognizing the jump from heroics being pretty big. at that point, it was due to just natural tuning. no one had gear, nevermind 4-piece set bonuses. however, the mechanics were not that unforgiving.
as the seasons have progressed, pugworld started to really encounter the consequences of poorly handled mechanics in the 11-13 range. while blizz has said that s4 dungeons are tuned +10 compared to s3, I think they are tuned at least 11 levels higher than last season.
in my view, s4 m0 is like s3 m11.5, s4 m2 is more like s3 13. these estimates put s4 dungeons right in that “you better know and handle the mechanics or you will fail” range.
so, for most people the “starter” mythics have mechanics that punish you right out of the gate if you don’t handle them.
i also think that many “average” players are super impatient. they do not run each dungeon on m0 before moving on to all m2s.
this impatience means that they don’t learn the s4 dungeons before they become really punishing.
I ran with a 3-person guild group in a +6 last night Ruby Life Pools. I can see a situation where they ran one of the guildie’s +2 in dungeon A, timed it, got a +4 for dungeon B, timed it, then got RLP +6 with no idea how to handle that dungeon. each boss had 3 wipes because people didn’t handle the mechanics.
gear level is not an issue inasmuch as everyone is doing 150k+ dps. that is plenty to clear <5/6s. but if you don’t handle the mechanics, your pewpew is likely worthless because you are dead.
from my experience, people do not know the extra mechanics after their heroic dungeons . also the fast pace from the tanks does not help out.
this
you dont need good ilvl to do m0. you just need to do passable dps (not even > season 3 numbers) and learn and execute the mechanics correctly
2 Likes
I have yet to fail m0s. I do them in 470s. The only wipe out of the 10 or so I ran was the tank grabbing all mobs and running into the final uldaman boss.
1 Like
Might want to post this on a character that isn’t 2100+ in IO, talking about how M0s are overtuned for us.
Biggest problem players face is having to do mechanics and use interrupts and CCs for a smooth run. Most don’t, either out of ignorance or because “someone else will do that” and so they get hit with mechanics, take avoidable damage, and don’t have huge inflated health pools to manage that stuff.
3 Likes