Lot of questions here, I’ll try to take this one at a time.
Does being a Scarlet make you a villain?
The answer to that will always depend on the person. Some people are deadset against Scarlets no matter the circumstances. Some people support the organization. Others are in the middle. There will never be a consensus but it’s important to note that most people are against it.
Would it make you a villain of the Alliance for killing a (Forsaken) Argent Crusader? Are they protected by Alliance law?
I don’t think it matters what the race of the Argent in this instance; the Argents are well regarded by the Alliance generally speaking so if you attack one of them in Alliance territory you should expect legal consequences. Outside of Alliance territory will probably be a different story. People will likely still be pissed off at you but I personally would not accept anyone trying to push legal consequences because the Alliance would lack jurisdiction in this instance and that’s the story I’m sticking with (I don’t care what anyone else thinks either tbh, it’s my way or the highway as far as I’m involved in something like this).
Also consider the dangers of even just being a pariah, however. Legal systems rely heavily on the people that are empowered to act as its agents in fact doing so. If you, as a Scarlet, are a pariah and do something that brings heat down on yourself, legal or not, such as killing an Argent outside of Alliance territory, you may not find many people that are willing to uphold the Alliance’s laws and prevent an Argent repraisal against you in Alliance territory because of the prejudices of said agents of Alliance law. What is legal or illegal de jure doesn’t matter as much as what the agents of the system, who are people, are actually willing to enforce.
All in all, it’s probably best for your character to exercise discretion in their Scarlet dealings. Lloria, my main, is still a full Scarlet supporter but all of her direct aid to their cause is secret: she funds them through shell organizations and generally operates in secret, especially by using the cover of a mercenary company and bounties to disguise hits, and she doesn’t talk about it with anyone that wouldn’t be supportive. It’s all about the plausible deniability.
Threads like these are usually posted by people who have no intention of accepting consequences for their character’s actions.
Argents have generally been treated as third party peacekeepers akin to the real world United Nations. Members of the Argent Dawn could be found assisting the Horde and Alliance across both continents, generally in combating an array of evil organizations including but not limited to: The Burning Legion, Shadow Council, and Twilight’s Hammer.
Whether or not an Argent is murdered in lands under Alliance jurisdiction, your character could be considered guilty of murdering an international peacekeeper.
Either way you slice it, that’s grounds to be extradited to the Argent headquarters and either thrown in the dungeon or - more likely - executed for the crime of murdering an honorable member of the order.
Something tells me that wouldn’t fly with you, which makes this entire thread an exercise in trying to justify legal loopholes you can use to roleplay a lunatic.
I try to not apply bad experiences I’ve had in the past with people just because there may be broadstroke similarities. I mean this person is on the forum asking questions, so I’d rather not assume it’s done with the intent of acting in bad faith later. And I could be wrong, maybe that’s exactly what’s happening here, but I don’t know and I respect someone for at least getting a feel for it by asking.
And it also fosters discussion which can apply to other things. Replace “Scarlet Crusade” with “Defias Brothood” or any number of other NPC antagonists that you can more or less cosplay as.
I don’t know why that was replying to you Lloria, i was answering Zakary.
The only reason i created the idea was i was curious about what kind of repercussions one could expect if they killed a forsaken of the crusade.
People usually seem more into the scarlet part than me killing a forsaken part.
Would someone be shunned still but secretly applauded as a hero for removing one more undead from the world?
If there is a way to be at war with the argent crusade that I’m not aware of I’m all ears. Would be more fun than playing ally all the time. I kill Argent Dawn forsaken members, the few there are that spawn in their old camp.
If I’m branded a villain, I’m ok with it.
No-one can tell of course since i don’t dress in Scarlet armor or wear the tabard in the cities. I figured i would ask regarding the boundaries between just an outcast/pariah and full criminal.
Some players hate anything about the scarlet crusade from the lore to player activity and I’ve had people attempt to report me for playing as one (that’s was years ago) because i didn’t follow lore. “You can’t be a scarlet crusader, because lore is absolute.” (Not exactly what they said, but reading between the lines.)
Technically, I could be a support of the Old Gods and no-one would know about it. But that’s a different character.
The Scarlet Crusade are villains. Each and every single iteration and offshoot of the original Crusade are villains or became villains. Though many that joined its ranks might have done so out of necessity or noble intentions originally, all are inevitably turned mad with zeal and corruption. They’re an isolationist, xenophobic faction of religious zealots who slaughter and torture anyone they come across just because they might carry the plague of undeath, Alliance or Horde. Civilian or soldier. Lordaeronian or foreigner.
Simply being affiliated with the Scarlet Crusade already makes you a villain. I suppose it is up to you to decide what shade of morality you wish to take from that with your character. I’m sure not every single crusader is sadistic, but all are complicit to some degree in the organization’s crimes.
While yes, the Forsaken are often looked upon with suspicion at best, and disgust or contempt at worst within the Alliance, the Argent Crusade is a banner that many know very well as a force for peace across Azeroth. Killing anyone that wears its colors will undoubtedly lead to dire repercussions, undead or not.
Would someone be shunned still but secretly applauded as a hero for removing one more undead from the world?
I feel like this has always been a tricky question. My personal feelings on the matter is that many humans within the Alliance, particularly the peasantry, would probably support this endeavor. People who are less worldly or traveled, the kinds of folks who have only heard about the horrors of the Scourge and the fall of so many other human kingdoms. Undoubtedly many have relatives that died to the Scourge or Cult’s machinations, and therefore would be close-minded enough to not really separate Forsaken from mindless undead thralls.
That said, everyone has their biases at every level of society, but that doesn’t trump the law. AKA: don’t kill envoys from friendly international organizations of great renown or you get a prolonged vacation in the stockades. Alternatively you get to larp as the headless horseman early this year.
A bit late to the conversation. Admittedly, I didn’t read every post due to lack of time, but I wanted to touch on something in case it was not yet posted.
However, Forsaken are a faction in the game of a specific group of undead. Forsaken are not a race. There are undead in the Argent Crusade who were likely once members of the Forsaken, who have since left and thus are not a member of the Forsaken anymore.
Again, Forsaken are a faction of undead - not a race. There are in the game canon lore many factions made up of various kinds of undead such as the Scourge.
That said, undead are gross and even Ebon Blade Death Knights are not well liked in Stormwind. The undead have many aspects to them that the living should not be comfortable around. From being disease carriers to how the matter of death makes the majority of people uncomfortable, the living shouldn’t be comfortable around the undead. It’s noted that even living animals dislike the undead, and will flee from them.
If undead Argent were killed by someone in cold blood, that would likely be frowned upon given the nature of the Argent Crusade. However, killing an undead member of the Forsaken is largely considered in many factions acceptable if not worthy of praise.
The Argent Crusade is a neutral factioned organization. While we have members of the Alliance races in our ranks, we also have members of Horde races in our ranks. We are very careful about keeping our neutrality, and as such endeavor to keep opposite factioned races out of each other’s cities. The chances of finding a Forsaken Argent Crusader in Stormwind would be slim to none, only at a very last resort if NO other messenger could be found.
We simply do not RP opposite factioned Crusaders in the capital cities, exceptions being if invited to help with some official business. This is EXTREMELY rare, in my four years RPing this high-level Argent Crusader, it has only happened ONCE.
Our Horde-raced crusaders had special protections for that ONE evening, but were not to be found in the city after proceedings were over. No exceptions. And of course, not wanting to be the cause of a faction war, we wisely left after we had done the business we were brought in to do.
For your case here, best you’re gonna get is making you a villain of the Argent Crusade (and/or perhaps the Forsaken.)
Memes aside, I’ve been meaning to ask someone and this made me think of it; what argent guilds are even still around, these days? I feel like I haven’t seen The Argent Onslaught in awhile.
Bulwark (defunct.)
Onslaught, active but does all their recruiting underground.
Advance, not currently recruiting AFAIK and kinda went wide of the mark.
Rampart (My guild, currently recruiting but very small.)
Those four are all ‘related’ guilds in that we all originated from each other.
Unrelated:
The Argent Vanguard- Seems to be someone’s personal guild, or maybe a few friends. They don’t seem to know how to roleplay.
Argent Crusade- GM is nice, we are cordial. He does NOT vet people joining his guild however, and it seems to me to be more of a social guild using the Argent guild tag.
Hello, im sad to see that you dont think we vet people, we have a two step vetting system to where we even make people read over the rules and agree to them before even joining the guild along with our other forms of vetting. Though we will remain kind hearted and continue to grow and keep having wonderful events for our Argents!