Im a M+ anti. Ill do delves any day over the stress of keys
Delves are fun and actually decent gp.
Never did or will ever do a M+, so it is hard for me to compare the challenge. But from what I hear about them, the hardest part is actually finding a group where delves you can do with what ever you have. It is nice to have an end game gearing option like that. However, I do not like it that they messed them up trying to balance groups. Was a rude awakening of clearing 8s at 608 to being one shot by the special mob as a tank when I tried to do a 9.
Yes and no.
Its actually quite easy to find groups, the problem is finding competent players.
Which adds a whole other layer of difficulty to the game.
The other problem is, a M+, if you are cooking, will take like ~20 min to do, and there is a good chance that if you suffer even 1 wipe you will have people leave and brick the key, and then you wasted your time.
Also you only have a 40% chance to get loot, as its 2 items across 5 people.
Delve t8, takes like 15min to do, gives you are 100% drop of a champ level items, possibility of getting a heroic map piece, and rewards heroic vault.
its SOOOOO much easier right now.
- You can get 8 champ items a week from devles not to mention there appears to be no limit on how many maps you can find, so if luck be with you, you can get like 3 pieces of heroic gear from doing delves a week, on top of getting your heroic vault.
- Delve 8 drops the same level of gear up to M6, M7 which very few can even do, drop 2 heroics for 5 people. On top of that in order to get 8 items out of M+ you would need to do 20 M+ dungeons across a week, assuming perfect distribution of loot. at about 20min a dungeon thats over 6.5 hours of content. I can run 8 T8 delves in 2h for the same loot, not counting the heroic maps. So its not really equal when you look at the time investment for it.
- M+ players do not live in a bubble of only M+ we are all playing the same game but doing different activities. Delves have been a MASSIVE part of M+ players because of how much loot they dish out, and how easy it is to get 3 heroic slots in teh vault form them as well. They may not have been aimed at M+ players ill give you that, but they 100% hit a bullseye with M+ players.
I imagine that part was unintentional but it is what it is.
I think it’s fine as it is, because the people not doing M+ need something and to nerf it just because it helps the M+ people would lead to it feeling much worse, IMO. but that’s just my thoughts hehe.
It’s possible that delves are showing us that M+ has never been worth the effort vs reward. 
Think the intention was for m+ gearing to really only be a viable gearing path for people who really enjoy m+.
That’s why it was nerfed and put into delves.
Really, nobody needs to do m+ if they don’t want to. I think that’s a good thing.
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I thought people did harder content because it’s fun? For years the argument has been that less-skilled players don’t need better gear and skilled players NEED it because they love doing that harder content. I always thought this was a bogus argument and now delves are proving that. You guys don’t adore the challenge, you just want the best gear, lol, and you do NOT want others to have it because you love feeling special.
I don’t give a rip and miss the days when I got more powerful in the world by getting better gear. That’s all I ever wanted. I HATE scaling.
But I can’t help laughing at all the “I love a challenge” people who are running to delves.
I think the amount of gear needs to be nerfed not just for m+ players but for delve players as well.
The problem is devles shower you with so much loot, you are going to be reaching the end of the rope very soon where delves no longer give you rewards that you can use, and you are just doing them to fill out your weekly scratcher card.
Thats the issue with delves, its a gravy train of gear, but the train ride is a very short one. Most people in this game, including people who do solo and delves, are doing it because it gives them some sort of reward at the end. Delves stop being rewarding very quickly because of how much loot you get.
And in another week or 2, GD is going to have a lot of people asking for better loot from delves, or saying they need more.
Nah it was very much worth it with the DF scaling, this squish has definitely made it not worth doing.
I would agree with that, if Alts weren’t being more encouraged this expansion, and as someone who is now running with more alts and it’s the only way I’m going to be getting gear, it works very well for that. I spend a lot of time on just my 4 current 80’s getting keys and running delves, I NEVER don’t have anything to do.
But I am also not specifically a Casual player, Delves feel more like they are for the people who only play a few hours a week. I may not raid anymore, but I still play upwards of 30 hours a week.
Oh yeah i agree its great for alt, but even at capping it to 4 keys a week, it would be fine as well. Thats 4 champ items you are getting a week, possibly up to 3 heroic items and heroic vault per character not counting the vet items that can drop that are warband items as well.
If they removed readient echos, it would be fine.
Ooooh I see what you’re saying.
I actually thought 4 was the cap. Hell I don’t even have time for 4 per character haha. I think that would be a good limitation. I would say that we should make the keys Warbound, but limit how many you can use on a character to 4 a week.
Maybe that would work.
Nah that would be broken even more.
Just get 4 80s, and funnel all the keys to 1 person, even at 4 a character thats now 12 champ items a week per single character.
Considering that you need stuff you can only get from mythic to upgrade the gear anyway, no.
Oh sorry, I meant no character can USE more than 4 keys a week, even if you had them. So I can give my spare keys to my new level 80 and not have to do the world quest stuff, again.
I actually have like 9 on my Evoker I would like to give to my Rogue and Monk
YOu know you can turn in your carved crests for rune crests right?
Yeah that would be more manageable i suppose. At that point you could keep echos.
Let me try again. The Dracthyr said I could but then didn’t let me do it.