I just tested the proper rotation of both the current and soon to be rotation on dummys. Yes the class does maybe the most ST dmg in the game if you literally make no mistakes at all but if you even make one mistake in this rotation your dps drops dramatically. Its very punishing and its not an easy rotation due to all the things that need to be tracked and there’s also a lot of rng procs plus missile procs that are nearly impossible to react to at times when lining up burden and precision. It looks like we are getting nerfed because of sims? That’s not even realistic its a bot, they have 1ms reaction time.
Currently the only option during movement is if you have a clear casting proc then you can missile unless you take ice floes which no one currently is because its clunky and requires you to stand still during the beginning of a cast (makes no sense)
This means dps goes down dramatically in dungeons and raids for this spec. Our aoe is also not good so why cant we be top ST(barely) if played perfectly? Which wont happen. It just seems very likely whoever made this change, has never played sunfury arcane optimally while doing mechanics. Also down time eats away at several ramping buffs that you are constantly giving yourself by being able to cast.
I had no problem playing momentum dh or trap weaving on my hunter but all I see is people complaining about how hard those are to play. For a stationary class this sunfury arcane build seems even harder. Point is: People are not going to be able to play this like its simming.
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I agree.
Arcane has not been in a good spot for years, they should let them shine for a while,
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You have to mess up literally everything not too do over a million. I agree with you that these changes are lame and they need to be reverted but your “why” is the problem. SF is stupid strong in both AoE and ST and incredibly easy to play. The spec is no longer punishing enough after one or two mistakes to effect your dps in such a large way that you can’t recover from those mistakes easily. I’d actually argue that SF is the easiest of all three classes and hero specs.
Evoc then Surge.
AB until BoP.
If BoP then AB/SpellQ/Abarr.
If Arcane Soul then Abarr.
If NP then AB.
If CC use missiles and clip for optimal dmg.
If under 2 charges use orb.
Rotation and gameplay doesn’t even change much going into AoE the only thing that changes is that you Abarr if NP+1 and 4 Arcane Charges and have Orb+CC.
I think youre being a bit dramatic about the complication. SF isn’t just topping the charts (Barely) it’s leagues ahead of other classes in both AoE and ST by like a million dps commonly if played correctly… which from what i’ve seen because of it’s simplicity is more often than not.
Arcane has some of the best movement and defensive utility out of any caster classes in the game. You can move during Evoc and AM… not too mention Abarr is instant cast. You’re only stationary during Surge and AB. Which admittedly is most of the time but… you have enough movement to plan around mechanics. Alter Time also helps out a ton with this.
It honestly sounds like you are not playing Arcane SF optimally. Instead of pointing fingers at the devs I would just let them cook. A nerf was bound to happen. Anyone that has run at least 10 Heroics can see that.
Arcane is not and will never be strong in AoE by simple virtue of the terrible aoe hardcaps.
Sunfury is without a doubt overtuned in single target (not by that much compared to rogue or even breaindead frost DK’s).
Meanwhile arcane aoe is pretty terrible outside your 1.5 min cd arcane surge+touch windows.
You have no good mass scaling aoe worth a damn. You pray the tank pulls 5-6 targets at most to be competitive with the melee and some casters. You won’t touch frost DK’s, shadow priests, let alone ele shamans.
So once they nerf arcane single target down, what will it have going for it? It has a terrible damage profile for M+, because all its damage is tied to 45 sec cd burst windows. You’re at the mercy of orb barrage proc swings, which have no bad luck protection.
I’m honestly tired of getting tuned around raids when most people play dungeons instead.
Arcane has a single niche in M+ and that’s boss damage, and once they nerf that you’ll just be replaced by a frost/fire mage who have more consistent aoe damage, will definitely scale better as they always do in late M+ seasons.
3 Likes
You obviously haven’t played either SS or SF Arcane. SS does great AoE dmg and SF does insane AoE dmg.
I disagree. The more targets the tank pulls the better.
Again disagree. I can do 600-800k dps in AoE without using Surge or ToTM. With ToTM it rides to 1mil+ … using SS. SF is 800k-1mil with no CDs.
False. Mass scaling in AoE for both Hero trees is insanely good… Splinterstorm and BoP Meteorites literally serve this purpose… Are we playing the same class?
What will it have going for it? I think the better question is what won’t it? I don’t understand where youre getting this idea that either hero class has a bad dmg profile outside of CDs… youre obviously playing the class wrong… Mage has an incredible defensive profile, lust, movement and overall M+ utility with spells like Remove Curse…
In summary pretty much everything you just said is wrong. I’d suggest reading some guides?
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this is actually not the rotation at all. And you think doing 1 mil with cds is a lot in dungeons right now? thats cute say hi to windwalkers doing 3 mil every other pull.
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I generally sit around like 1m at the end of a boss havent been beat by any ww but with all my cds up on a big pull usually the ww is slightly ahead of me. What really sucks about arcane aoe is the rng of the free orbs. IMO if you have max charges it should just throw a orb on barrage.
You can’t even read. I asked what will arcane have over the other specs, not what mage as a class brings to M+.
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They do that every time. It’s way too early to do tuning passes yet. What are they basing them on, the live data from heroic dungeons? LOL!
And yes, I completely agree on the level of precision required to execute a perfect rotation. It’s simply not going to happen 9/10 times in a dynamic boss fight, unless it’s a strictly Patchwerk type boss but raids have only 1 of those per tier if that. They’re assuming everyone plays perfectly and most people simply do not. So a 10% damage nerf to the average player would be more like a 30% nerf. Meanwhile the top end players to whom these nerfs are targeted will barely even feel them.
Saw an Arcane mage doing 900k ST dps lol. People really acting like it didn’t need a nerf? Really?
No it doesn’t because in exchange its doing 500-600k sustained aoe while melee are popping 1-3 million DPS in M+
Fury warriors and assassination rogues can burst up similarly in ST while having far more aoe.
4 Likes
agreed. it should be getting buffed if anything…
The new rotation just doesn’t feel good. You are now not spell queueing, instead just barrage barrage. Which means the second one does no damage. So we now have a dead global every 5 to 7 globals depending on clear casting procs. The rotation felt perfect before. I don’t even know how much of a nerf this is because of how much rng this spec has. I don’t think they even know. I would guess somewhere between 5 to 15% depending on rng.
I can do more than that in dungeons on st lol some people just suck at mage
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i’ve done up to 1.9m on ST in dungeons that doesn’t mean anything. Everything is dying insanely fast right now and arcane has great burst. On average at item level 575 I could sustain about 700k at the very most on a training dummy with minimal errors over the course of 5 mins. 640k on average and about 590k with the new rotation on average (no lust). Mind you that I only tested not being able to spell queue anymore, there are other nerfs that will bring the new rotations damage even lower.
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The new rotation feels flaccid
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LMAO. It is not the easiest spec to play. Just look at how many “IF” conditions you listed, undermines your entire argument right there.
Not to mention AOE is tied to your Bust windows of touch and surge, which makes arcane AOE terrible every other pull. So if you nerf ST, you don’t have much left for Arcane Sunfury, might as well go Frost Mage.
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lol, ok. Burst damage when bosses are dying in secs on heroic dungeons is not something to brag about. Maybe you don’t understand the spec?
Your 800k - 1 million Sunfury aoe without touch and Surge is heavily reliant on rng procs at the correct time and large pulls and is total BS.
